OFFTOPIC: Kurds as Indo-Europeans & Indo-European haplogroups

[Templar]

Which looks like IE?

There is no such thing as a pure IE anymore, but Putin looks pretty close, except for maybe his nose.
And why did u post Stalin? He is Georgian.

 

[Yetos]

I keep telling you this, Indo-Europeans didn't have long skulls. Wherever they went, they left people with broader skills. For example I once read an article saying that light-haired Greeks were more likely to have wide faces than dark-haired Greeks. The only place that has a large concentration of thin-faced light-haired Indo-Europeans is Scandinavia. That is the EXCEPTION not the rule. But the popularization of the term "Nordic" has made this false belief so common. Please just look at the evidence, the haplogroups, you aren't going to lose a part of you just because most Kurds have skulls that are generally different from Indo-Europeans. You will still have the light phenotype.

Really?
Pericles had a skull so big that wear a helmet to cover it,

I think connecting alpine race with IE is wrong, cause alpine race existed before IE,
if ancient Greeks had wide faces why they wear long and narrow helmets?

I gave photos of the one you call as motherland of IE, which one is closest to IE?

 

[Templar]

Gorbachev is also pretty IE-looking

 

[Yetos]

Yes, they are.



They were sampled to test their haplogroups, and I think it said that most if not all of them were R1a (not R1b which spread from Anatolia)

Tocharian language and people went from Anatolia to tarim basin,
Yes they were R1a , But not Baltic, that is the mistake that many Slavs do, they are connecting all R1a with Slavic and alpine race, believing that all R1a is trade mark of Baltic and Slavs.

 

[Templar]

I think connecting alpine race with IE is wrong, cause alpine race existed before IE,
if ancient Greeks had wide faces why they wear long and narrow helmets?

I never said Greeks had wide faces. Some did, but most didn't.

I gave photos of the one you call as motherland of IE, which one is closest to IE?

Central Asia was the motherland, not Russia...but close enough for you I guess

 

[Templar]

Yes they were R1a , But not Baltic, that is the mistake that Slavs do, they are connecting all R1a with Slavic and alpine race,

I agree with most of Eupedia when it comes to Indoeuropeans. If you don't, you are the outlier. They had wide faces, short bodies, and light features.

 

[Yetos]

I think that Puttin if had curly hair and a little bump at the head is a good sample of IE.

 

[Templar]

I think that Puttin if had curly hair and a little bump at the head is a good sample of IE.

Why would he need a bump and curly hair? IE developed in a cold environment, where long skulls and bodies are a liability. You a need small stocky body (like an Eskimo) to retain as much heat as possible. And curly hair is usually present in hot/warm places not cold ones.

 

[Yetos]

Tarim basin mummies

Mycenean Mask

Thracian Gold Mask

a common to all υψωμενα ζυγωματικα

Towering zygomatic bones,
if by big cheeks you mean big Zygomatic bones then Yes, I agree

 

[jjmuneer123]

I keep telling you this, Indo-Europeans didn't have long skulls. Wherever they went, they left people with broader skills. For example I once read an article saying that light-haired Greeks were more likely to have wide faces than dark-haired Greeks. The only place that has a large concentration of thin-faced light-haired Indo-Europeans is Scandinavia. That is the EXCEPTION not the rule. But the popularization of the term "Nordic" has made this false belief so common. Please just look at the evidence, the haplogroups, you aren't going to lose a part of you just because most Kurds have skulls that are generally different from Indo-Europeans. You will still have the light phenotype.

But I just showed you the reconstructions that showed they were long skulled. Show me that they were brachephalic then. I don't care about light hair or Nordic, I even stated proto indo-Iranians were just depigmented Iranids.

 

[jjmuneer123]

Tarim basin mummies

Mycenean Mask

Thracian Gold Mask

a common to all υψωμενα ζυγωματικα

Towering zygomatic bones,
if by big cheeks you mean big Zygomatic bones then Yes, I agree

Those look long skulled, like the ones from andronovo.

 

[Templar]

if by big cheeks you mean big Zygomatic bones then Yes, I agree

I am happy that we agree.

 

[Templar]

But I just showed you the reconstructions that showed they were long skulled.

Yes and I showed u a link that showed that the skull dimensions were within the Polish norm. Poles are usually considered short-skulled, so clearly then the Androvovo skulls were short-skulled as well.

 

[Yetos]

Why would he need a bump and curly hair? IE developed in a cold environment, where long skulls and bodies are a liability. You a need small stocky body (like an Eskimo) to retain as much heat as possible. And curly hair is usually present in hot/warm places not cold ones.

Cause IE went to North Europe, their enviroment was not Baltic. but either minor Asia, either Caucasus

about curly hair a good example what i mean is in Irish population plenty, but also everywhere in Europe,
I do not mean grape like curly, but that that is straight at the root and slowly makes circles at the end, the more long, the bigger the circle,

Take a look the hair i name curly, they had nothing to do with the straight hair
which I think existed in Europe before like bellow,

 

[Templar]

Cause IE went to North Europe, their enviroment was no Baltic. but either minor Asia, either Caucasus

I see what you mean, but keep in mind that there two main different kinds of Indo-Europeans, one kind went through Anatolia and mixed with the natives on the way, and the other went through the Ukrainian steppes. So ofcourse they (the r1b ones) would have curly hair, and we can see that mostr1b populations do have curly hair. But r1a didn't have curly hair, and neither did the r1b ones before going through anatolia.

 

[MOESAN]

Poutin has a mix look that shows some evident 'est-baltic' element (flaxen blond and staight hair) - he is sub-brachycephalic (apparently) and shows also some north-east forest people where play a "feotalized alpinelike" element (maybe without any tie to true western 'alpine', or if so, by the females mediated, see Lapps or Saami) and a very very slight mongoloid' element, the two of them found as elements among Saami and other norh-eastern population of Russia, Karelia, where the mongoloid admixture is not too recent (4000/5000 years ago???) -
as said yet by other forumers here, there is nothing as an 'indo-european phenotype' (at least at protohistoric times)- we can only said that the crossings which was common among steppic people supposed to be I-E encompassed a majority of tall dolichocephals and a minority of brachycephals, where the tall 'dinaroid' ones seam having been the strongest (I see this 'dinaric' element as being come from the eastern carpathians at bronze time, perhaps already before) - and to complicate the game, among the dolichocephalics was some 'nordics', (high faced, not brutal) some 'brünnoids' or 'capelloids' high faced, brutal shape), and even some 'cro-magnoids' with elongated skulls BUT BROAD faces (not brutal but robust) - so the correlation crania-face has to be verified... 'iranid' ('indo-afghan' for you?) and 'nordic' have not at all the same shapes, even if tall and dolichocephalic - 'iranid' goes closer to 'capelloid' I think -

don't believe environment is yet playing a quick role upon human beings: yet, 'cromagnon' paradigm had not the morphology for cold climates, very less than 'neanderthal' - some dozens of generations are not sufficient to change phenotypes; because human genotype is complicated adn internally interactive - don't forget human beings wore clothes a long time ago... all the tales about dates of depigmentation, hairs form and things like that have to be more supported (let's compare different populations, internally and externally)

 

[Yetos]

I see what you mean, but keep in mind that there two main different kinds of Indo-Europeans, one kind went through Anatolia and mixed with the natives on the way, and the other went through the Ukrainian steppes. So ofcourse they (the r1b ones) would have curly hair, and we can see that mostr1b populations do have curly hair. But r1a didn't have curly hair, and neither did the r1b ones before going through anatolia.

there is a third explanations once I discuss with macciamo, the Gedrosian,
Meaning that IE pass from Iran to Caucasus and maykop and there found arsenic bronze and spread to steppes continuing west and North,
Arsenic Bronze is a good archaiological indicator that send us back to Maykop. but Maykop was colony of Leyla teppe which is a land of Iranian R1b.

 

[Yetos]

Poutin has a mix look that shows some evident 'est-baltic' element (flaxen blond and staight hair) - he is sub-brachycephalic (apparently) and shows also some north-east forest people where play a "feotalized alpinelike" element (maybe without any tie to true western 'alpine', or if so, by the females mediated, see Lapps or Saami) and a very very slight mongoloid' element, the two of them found as elements among Saami and other norh-eastern population of Russia, Karelia, where the mongoloid admixture is not too recent (4000/5000 years ago???) -
as said yet by other forumers here, there is nothing as an 'indo-european phenotype' (at least at protohistoric times)- we can only said that the crossings which was common among steppic people supposed to be I-E encompassed a majority of tall dolichocephals and a minority of brachycephals, where the tall 'dinaroid' ones seam having been the strongest (I see this 'dinaric' element as being come from the eastern carpathians at bronze time, perhaps already before) - and to complicate the game, among the dolichocephalics was some 'nordics', (high faced, not brutal) some 'brünnoids' or 'capelloids' high faced, brutal shape), and even some 'cro-magnoids' with elongated skulls BUT BROAD faces (not brutal but robust) - so the correlation crania-face has to be verified... 'iranid' ('indo-afghan' for you?) and 'nordic' have not at all the same shapes, even if tall and dolichocephalic - 'iranid' goes closer to 'capelloid' I think -

don't believe environment is yet playing a quick role upon human beings: yet, 'cromagnon' paradigm had not the morphology for cold climates, very less than 'neanderthal' - some dozens of generations are not sufficient to change phenotypes; because human genotype is complicated adn internally interactive - don't forget human beings wore clothes a long time ago... all the tales about dates of depigmentation, hairs form and things like that have to be more supported (let's compare different populations, internally and externally)

well to make a joke, if IE look like them

Then surely Basket should be invented 4000 years before.

 

[Templar]

there is a third explanations once I discuss with macciamo, the Gedrosian,
Meaning that IE pass from Iran to Caucasus and maykop and there found arsenic bronze and spread to steppes continuing west and North,
Arsenic Bronze is a good archaiological indicator that send us back to Maykop. but Maykop was colony of Leyla teppe which is a land of Iranian R1b.

It is possible I guess. And so both r1b and r1a would have gone that way?

 

[Templar]

well to make a joke, if IE look like them

Haha, yeah they were probably pretty short statured. I can't possibly imagine them being tall.