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OFFTOPIC: Kurds as Indo-Europeans & Indo-European haplogroups

Templar said:
But they had horses, which gave them a huge edge in warfare. Don't you think it was more likely that THEY were the ones who Indo-europised the others? You don't need culture to conquer, just the right tools.
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Everything is possible, I don't have a time machine to look in the past. But according to me it was not really the case. Horses were domesticated in the Middle East thousands years earlier.

People in the steppes were NEVER more advanced than people in West Asia, well maybe the last 250 years and that's because Islam destroyed pretty much everything in the Middle East.

I believe that horses in the steppes only played an important role in Iranic tribes and Turco-Mongolian (like Zjengis Khan) campaigns from the east into Eastern Europe. But that happened thousands and thousands years after what we’re talking about.
 
People in the steppes were NEVER more advanced than people in West Asia
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I never said that haha. The domestication of horses doesn't necessarily have to be a technological feat.

I believe that horses in the steppes only played a important role in Iranic tribes and Turco-Mongolian (like zjengis khan) campaigns from the east into Eastern Europe. But that happened thousands and thousands years after what we’re talking about.
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There is alot of evidence that Indo-Europeans were the first ones to use horses, and that they transmitted the technology to both West Asia and East Asia.
 
Templar said:
But they had horses, which gave them a huge edge in warfare. Don't you think it was more likely that THEY were the ones who Indo-europised the others? You don't need culture to conquer, just the right tools.
Click to expand...

Yes but arsenic bronze was not invented in Asian steppe.
you see they also have broze which invented in Maykop.
it is not the horse that makes the diffrence but the charriot,
in Troyan war we see Thracian Myceneans Troyan etc use charriots not horse riding.
 
Nope I said they Zygomatic bones high in the face,
they had towering zygomatic bones,
not wide and round faces, neither fat cheeks,
 
Goga said:
Everything is possible, I don't have a time machine to look in the past. But according to me it was not really the case. Horses were domesticated in the Middle East thousands years earlier.

People in the steppes were NEVER more advanced than people in West Asia, well maybe the last 250 years and that's because Islam destroyed pretty much everything in the Middle East.

I believe that horses in the steppes only played an important role in Iranic tribes and Turco-Mongolian (like Zjengis Khan) campaigns from the east into Eastern Europe. But that happened thousands and thousands years after what we’re talking about.
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advanced civilization has nothing to do, Akkadeians Egyptians were advanced before but they were not IE speakers ( or they are related?)
 
Templar said:
That doesn't equal Indo-European. Indo-Europeans were adapted to the cold environment of Central Asia. They had short, stocky bodies, with short limbs, and with round heads. Google "Allen's Rule" for an explanation as to why.

Persians were a mix of these migrants with the native West Asian population (who you call "Iranids").
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I never stated Persian though, I stated indo-iranian. Proto-Indo Iranians were from central Asia. By the way central asia isn't cold, it's gets really hot in the summer.
 
By the way central asia isn't cold, it's gets really hot in the summer.
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The planet was much colder when the Indo-Europeans were evolving and adapting to their envionment.
 
Nope I said they Zygomatic bones high in the face,
they had towering zygomatic bones,
not wide and round faces, neither fat cheeks,
Click to expand...
This is from "A Handbook of Anatomy for Art Students":
"By placing a finger on the zygomatic arch the presence of the temporalfossa (with its large temporal muscle and its fibres passing below the Zygomatic arches) can be discerned by alternate opening and closing of the mouth. It is also noted that the prominence of cheek bones are identified with the races (whether Mongolian, Tartar orAustralian aborigines who have broad features)"

All the races listed have roundish-looking faces and all have prominent Zygomatic bones. It is obvious why, the pronounced cheeks make the width of the face seem much higher than it is (especially if the person has large fat deposits or muscle tissue). I think the same would apply to Indo-Europeans, why should they be the only exception?

 
Templar said:
This is from "A Handbook of Anatomy for Art Students":
"By placing a finger on the zygomatic arch the presence of the temporalfossa (with its large temporal muscle and its fibres passing below the Zygomatic arches) can be discerned by alternate opening and closing of the mouth. It is also noted that the prominence of cheek bones are identified with the races (whether Mongolian, Tartar orAustralian aborigines who have broad features)"

All the races listed have roundish-looking faces and all have prominent Zygomatic bones. It is obvious why, the pronounced cheeks make the width of the face seem much higher than it is (especially if the person has large fat deposits or muscle tissue). I think the same would apply to Indo-Europeans, why should they be the only exception?

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cristiano-ronaldo-0011.jpg


wonder?
has he towering Zygomatic bones?
has he big cheeks?
has he round face?


dr.helmut-kohl-der-kanzler-der-deutschen-einheit.jpg


he has round face,
he has big cheeks
has he towering zygomatic bones?

what about him?
maradona.jpg

short, round wide face etc,


Inuit.jpg

perfect round wide face, perfect big cheeks, mainly short etc, is it a perfect example of IE?

or this
630mycenaeGoldMaskWowSm.jpg


redhairedmummiesloubeaut.JPG


the possible face of a female tocharian mummy,
DOES IT LOOK SO BALTIC TO YOU?
DOES IT LOOK SO NORTHERN EUROPEAN?

she could easily pass for Romanian or Afganistan lady
look carefully the lips.


images

Turn him 90 degrees

he could easily pass for a goat breeder in balkans
 
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There are signals pointing that R1b was present in the Neolithic, at least, since the late Neolithic according to the latest findings. So the link with IE is not that clear, it's likely in my opinion that when IE languages arrived R1b was already extended. Concerning the Basques, all evidence shows they preserved their language fairly well after R1b settled there so, again, considering they don't show significant connections with West Asia and other IE related territories in both admixture experiments and PCA plots, it's probably because R1b had actually nothing to do with IE at first, and rather was part of the Neolithic dispersals into Europe, being succesful as we can see nowadays. ¿Do the Basques speak R1b language? I don't think so. I think their language predates even this event, but maybe both languages were akin to each other in some way...who knows, more research is required.
 
redhairedmummiesloubeaut.JPGActually this lady is believed to be an indo-Iranian, well either Tohcarian or Aryan. Anyway I think she resembles this Kurdish lady from my tribe:
50591468.jpg
 
he has round face,
he has big cheeks
has he towering zygomatic bones?
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He is overweight. And the Asian child u showed is too young to see his/her facial bones. You picked and chose examples which would serve your purpose.
 
Templar said:
He is overweight. And the Asian child u showed is too young to see his/her facial bones. You picked and chose examples which would serve your purpose.
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No towering zygomatic bones does not mean round face and big cheeks.

but more a rombic face or an upside down egg

the photo of the liitle asian girl is a little american girl, an Inuit,
Inuits have the most big cheeks and the most round face as a sum.

as you see hunters-gatherers have big cheeks and round face, IE were after Neolithic agricultural boom, milleniums after Summerians so alpine race (anthropometric race) should exist in Europe when IE came, and continue to exist via female population most than patriarchcal which was IE incomers
 
Yetos said:
advanced civilization has nothing to do, Akkadeians Egyptians were advanced before but they were not IE speakers ( or they are related?)
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I believe that Semitic tribes in southwest of the Middle East were always influened by folks from north, from Anatolia /Zagros mountains.
 
Goga said:
I believe that Semitic tribes in southwest of the Middle East were always influened by folks from north, from Anatolia /Zagros mountains.
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My point was that someone can conquer or put his rulles even langaue,
Greeks speak IE but they did not learn it from Egypteians who were more civilised before, neither from Akkadeians.
same way IE could be Steppe people while civilazation of middle East that time could be infront,
It has nothing to do who was more civiliazied or techically advanced,
 
IE were after Neolithic agricultural boom, milleniums after Summerians so alpine race (anthropometric race) should exist in Europe when IE came, and continue to exist via female population most than patriarchcal which was IE incomers
Click to expand...

Well since we don't know for sure, it is possible. But all the evidence suggests that the original r1a and r1b people had roundish faces and short bodies. People who believe that Indo-Europeans looked "Nordic", are delusional. It is just old 19th and early 20th century imperialist-fueled propaganda. If Indo-Europeans were a mix that was created in West Asia, then they definitely didn't look "Nordic".
 
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