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Lessons from Katrina

Wheatthins, you can check the sources I gave in an earlier post.

Well, he did come out here to California. He did party with supporters in San Diego. But again, that was a working vacation... and just because the President was doing fundraising doesn't mean that he had turned a deaf ear to suffering. And unlike the response in 1992 to hurricane Andrew, when federal assistance was on the ground in 12 hours, we all watched as no one, except Walmart trucks, showed up in Nola for five days. When you say not "ideal" or "smooth", boy that's an understatement- it was entirely absent. Even the president admitted to his credit that it was inadequate and that we had to do better.

Also, I think your unserstanding of NCLB is rather shallow. You need to look into this some more.
 
Well, he did come out here to California.
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And before that, in CRAWFORD he consulted with FEMA as well as both the Gov of LO and mayor of NO. The President is also the one who urged them to begin the evacuation of NO, as well as co-signing off on declaring a State of Emergency in NO. It was at this time that the President ALSO requested the govenor to turn over control of the National Guard to the President - she refused. One of my missteps by the LO leadership - including, but not limited to - waiting to issue a MANDATORY evacuation of NO, using the super-dome as a Last Resort Refuge (without having adequate supplies and security), and allowing hundreds of School Buses to go unused in the evac. efforts despite the Mayor and Gov. having the authority to commander the buses for such a purpose.

And unlike the response in 1992 to hurricane Andrew, when federal assistance was on the ground in 12 hours, we all watched as no one, except Walmart trucks, showed up in Nola for five days.
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An lie, no matter how many times repeated is still a lie. FEMA was on the ground BEFORE KATRINA hit. You "watched" that because thats all the news was reporting, and instead of waiting for news to actually get out - people came to their own conclusions. Unaware of just what exactly was happening behind the scenes of the KATRINA response.

http://www.redcross.org/faq/0,1096,0_682_4524,00.html - heres a link regarding the "aid" that was refused. . .not by FEMA.

As for FEMA and the FED's response - this here is a collection of their response over the first 24-Hours that KATRINA hit:

The White House released a list of the response through Tuesday afternoon by federal agencies and the American Red Cross:

FEMA
FEMA deployed 23 Disaster Medical Assistance Teams from all across the U.S. to staging areas in Alabama, Tennessee, Texas, and Louisiana and is now moving them into impacted areas.

Seven Urban Search and Rescue task forces and two Incident Support Teams have been deployed and propositioned in Shreveport, La., and Jackson, Miss., including teams from Florida, Indiana, Ohio, Maryland, Missouri, Tennessee, Texas, and Virginia. Three more Urban Search and Rescue teams are in the process of deployment.

FEMA is moving supplies and equipment into the hardest hit areas as quickly as possible, especially water, ice, meals, medical supplies, generators, tents, and tarps.


U.S. Coast Guard
More than 40 Coast Guard aircraft from units along the entire eastern seaboard, with more than 30 small boats, patrol boats, and cutters are positioned in staging areas around the impact areas, from Jacksonville, Fla., to Houston, now conducting post-hurricane search, rescue and humanitarian aid operations, waterway impact assessments and waterway reconstitution operations.
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There's more here -

http://www.nola.com/newslogs/breaki...a_Times-Picayune/archives/2005_08.html#075222

So no - your contention that the FED's werent doing "anything" and that noone showed up is patently false.

Also, I think your unserstanding of NCLB is rather shallow. You need to look into this some more.
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Lol - man I work for HeadStart here in California - I know the "limitations" placed on educators. NCLB encompasses ALOT - but I simply responded to YOUR criticism of the Presidents focus on teachers. If you want to contrust a critique beyond platitudes - Ill respond to that.
 
What are you living in, a hole somewhere? In anyone's broadest imagination was that response even remotely adequate? Notice the verb tense in your quote- "is now moving" "are in the process of deployment"... None of it got to the city before the fifth day of the crisis.

About 80-85% of the city was evacuated- which is about the rate you would expect. The people left behind included the poor, the invalid, public workers, people that were simply resistant to government intervention in their lives, foreign tourists, the ill informed, and certainly some people that are stupid. The percentages of stay behinds are about what you would expect. State and local authorities should answer for failures during the first three days of the emergency. But keep in mind who had PRIMARY responsibility. (The dude was fired after all.)

Your own source cites the Department of Homeland Security which is under the direction of the federal government as to why they were prevented from comming into the city: "The state Homeland Security Department had requested--and continues to request--that the American Red Cross not come back into New Orleans following the hurricane. Our presence would keep people from evacuating and encourage others to come into the city."

And notice that the dateline on the article about Bush cutting short his vacation is "Tuesday." The day after the levies broke. This means that our commander in chief partied on for an extra four days after the disaster was declared.

Now- not all of this is Bush's fault. But the relief effort was bungled. And he is the guy at the top. (Look at the video of the Jackson Parish president.) I'm certain the different partisan investigations will find exactly what we expect- but in the cold light of day there certainly will be enough blame to go around. It is just that he never takes responsibility for anything- not only does the buck not stop here, it doesn't even exist.
 
What are you living in, a hole somewhere?
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An ad-hominem attack is about the surest way for someone to discredit and dismiss your argument - just an FYI.

In anyone's broadest imagination was that response even remotely adequate?
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Perhaps in the minds of patisans no. . .

Notice the verb tense in your quote- "is now moving" "are in the process of deployment"... None of it got to the city before the fifth day of the crisis.
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False. FEMA units were in and around the city. Of course they werent IN the city - why would they be before the storm hit.

About 80-85% of the city was evacuated- which is about the rate you would expect. The people left behind included the poor, the invalid, public workers, people that were simply resistant to government intervention in their lives, foreign tourists, the ill informed, and certainly some people that are stupid. The percentages of stay behinds are about what you would expect. State and local authorities should answer for failures during the first three days of the emergency. But keep in mind who had PRIMARY responsibility.
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It is not FEMA's responsibility to TAKE COMMAND of relief efforts - they are there to ASSIST local gov. You can check out FEMA.gov for a list of their responsibilities. And MIKE BROWN was removed from heading up KATRINA RECOVERY - not fired. Politically - there was no way the President could keep him in his current position.

As for removing the infirm and the sick - who better to move these people than those who know the city the best?

Your own source cites the Department of Homeland Security which is under the direction of the federal government as to why they were prevented from comming into the city: "The state Homeland Security Department had requested--and continues to request--that the American Red Cross not come back into New Orleans following the hurricane. Our presence would keep people from evacuating and encourage others to come into the city."
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LO STATE Homeland Security is NOT a department of the FEDERAL Homeland Security. It is a state agency.

And notice that the dateline on the article about Bush cutting short his vacation is "Tuesday." The day after the levies broke. This means that our commander in chief partied on for an extra four days after the disaster was declared.
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Where is your source that the president "partied" - your using explosive dishonest language to describe the actions of the PRESIDENT. Again - what should the PRESIDENT have been doing BEFORE the leeve broke (which is the true cause of the majority of the disaster in NO)?
 
I have to look up the source, (http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/) but the regional disaster plans in place put disaster response under the department of homeland security. Both the LO state agency and all the federal agencies would immediately come under that control. FEMA is the office's organization that coordinates the efforts and determines where to send resources. As much as the levies- which are directly managed by the US Army Corps of Engineers were a source of this disaster, the lack of any kind of outside assistance to the city of New Orleans for almost an entire week is a major cause of human suffering, death and frustration and anger.

Thanks for the information on your statement about my living in a hole question. It really was a statement of total incredulity-- I can't believe that you find the federal response acceptable. The ad-hominem "attack" was my way of attempting to determine why your POV seems so different than everyone else's. It contradicts report after report that I see on television and read in the newspaper and online. I don't think I have heard from or seen another person in the entire country that thinks the Katrina response was adequate. But here you are- again appologizing and making excuses for our fearless leader.

I for one would expect this leader to be somewhere closer to the disaster, and to be there earlier. There is value in symbolic leadership and just his presence in the are of a natural disaster communicates the gravity and importance of the rescue and relief efforts. Staying in California to attend parties in his honor communicates quite the opposite. I would appologize for using the word "partied" if you found it explosive and dishonest, but he was in fact attending parties. His itinerary was no secret- California, Arizona, Colorado- fundraisers, dinners, visits and speeches about the end of WWII. Normal political business as usual while thousands of his constituents languished with no assistance, no food, medical help or water.

I have to find the source, (Washington Monthly?), but your own source confirms that while New Orleans was undergoing a slow motion catastrophe on Monday and Tuesday, Bush was mugging for the cameras, cutting a cake for John McCain, playing the guitar for Mark Wills, delivering an address about V-J day, and continuing with his vacation. "Then, on Wednesday, when he finally got around to saying something, it turned out to be a flat, defensive, laundry list of a speech."
http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/08/30/bush.hurricane.ap/
 
Thanks, Glenn. I've been sitting here wondering if it got changed and I failed to hear about it.

(Note: LA should not be confused with L.A. which, of course, stands for "Lower Alabama")
 
Thanks Glenn, I'd correct it on my post, but then it would make your post make no sense. Let me practice: LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA.

By the way, are you and yours all ok? I hope all is well.

Take care: either mike or jarvis may think you're predisposed to criminal behavior.
 
Everyone is alright. It took me a while to get in touch with everyone or to find out about them, which caused some stress and fatigue, but thankfully they all escaped harm's way. I'm not sure about my one Uncle's house in NO, though, or my friends' families' houses. All of the information that I have now leads me to believe they're all alright, though. Thanks for your concern.
 
I have to look up the source, (http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/) but the regional disaster plans in place put disaster response under the department of homeland security.
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I think you need to go and read what FEMA's legitimate role is in EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT - they dont just spring into action into a state; the State STILL bears primary responsibility in coordinating disaster management and relief. If BLANCO had come out and said "Take it over boys" - then by all means. She didnt. In fact she had TWO chances to turn over control of the region to the feds - in once instance she told the President to give her 24 hours. 24 HOURS. A day.

Here's also a link to the "services" and "resources" requested from the FED's (FEMA) by the Govenor - I'm sure you'll note a few things missing from her list of needs:

http://www.gov.state.la.us/Disaster Relief Request.pdf

9 Million dollars. . .to co-ordinate this disaster.

But here you are- again appologizing and making excuses for our fearless leader.
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Whos apologizing for who -

I am however attempting to dispel some of the MYTHS (and there are many) surrounding public perception of just what went down from Aug. 26 to Aug 31. You have made every insistence of inadequacy and can only point to the NEWS IMAGES that broke out - nevermind that the news is very often biased and will only focus on the surface. . .especially in a situation like this. The ONLY one singling out blame in this situation seems to be you - I've not once said the President is free from criticism for the job that was done in response to KATRINA - thats part and parcel of the job as President. Would I categorize the effort as adequate - I cant say because as of right now we STILL dont know the full story of what went down. Based on the SURFACE - no, it doesnt seem like what needed to get done, got done. But when a workable timeline IS established, then we can determine whether or not FEDs, State and Local gov did everything they were required to do.

As much as the levies- which are directly managed by the US Army Corps of Engineers were a source of this disaster, the lack of any kind of outside assistance to the city of New Orleans for almost an entire week is a major cause of human suffering, death and frustration and anger.
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An entire week - did you not read anything posted? Where are you getting the information that these people went without for a week? I have to find the link, but MRE's and water WAS provided to people at the SUPERDOME. . .from supplies that arrived THAT FRIDAY.

I for one would expect this leader to be somewhere closer to the disaster, and to be there earlier.
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Why? It serves NO PURPOSE other than to play to the cameras.

Staying in California to attend parties in his honor communicates quite the opposite.
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Again - WHAT PARTIES. You either refuse to link because you know youre using loaded language, or youre getting this stuff second-hand and taking it as fact. As for "playing the guitar" - it was a gift. . .from a returning IRAQ Soldier - yea, a real party I'm sure.

The President is the President. He's not the head of each of these departments - he's the boss. He installs people to these positions who he feels will carry it out effectively. It is NOT his job to micro-manage these departments if he doesnt have to. Again - in an-depth investigation (as Washington is want to do) will determine who did what, when, and why -
 
sabro said:
Thanks Glenn, I'd correct it on my post, but then it would make your post make no sense. Let me practice: LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA.

By the way, are you and yours all ok? I hope all is well.

Take care: either mike or jarvis may think you're predisposed to criminal behavior.
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What have I said that would indicate that?
 
Looking at their management plan (see site), I stand corrected. The state and local agencies still bear primary responsibility. The federal aid kicks in when these are overwhelmed as in this case. Again if you view the video of the Jackson Parish President's rant, I think you will agree that the response was inadequate and that federal officials actually hampered the effort.

My point about the president is basically that he is out of touch entirely with his own people. I don't expect you to agree with this, but know that about 60% of us believe he should bear responsibillity for what is agreed to be among the worst disaster responses in recent memory.
 
mikecash- it would have to be a strethch- "The good people of the crescent city have done more than enough to invite aspersions over the years." which of course assumes that Glenn is actually from NOLA.

Also if you feel attacked, I again appologize- the emotional energy is probably not intended to be directed in your direction. Racism, blaming the victim and making excuses for actions and inactions have raised a sense of ire usually absent in my postings. I have several friends with family there, and I just returned from there a few weeks ago. Although most people have been found, a few are still missing and almost everyone has suffered pretty significant losses.
 
A quick check of snopes.com reveals that much of what Tim Russert has to say about it is basically untrue and unsubstantiated. Snopes is non partisan and it is good for checking online rumours.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/katrina/nagin.asp
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TIM had nothing to say about anything contained in that SNOPES article. NAGIN had a poor showing on MTP and should have been briefed better by his handlers - if he has any. TIM properly pointed out that the job of evacuating the city was the State and Locals job, and that they had the authority to draw staff from other agencies to assist on getting the job done. NAGIN's sole refute to the criticism TIM presented - was that he thought help was coming. He ASSUMED it was coming in a manner "suiting" NAGIN.

SEN. LANDREAU was on FOX this afternoon as well, and she also seemed unable to effectively answer why buses went unused, and what exactly was being done with the INCREASED (compared to CLINTON's term in office) funding LA received -

The MSNBC article does a suprisingly good job of pointing out the failures on all levels of gov.
 
sabro said:
mikecash- it would have to be a strethch- "The good people of the crescent city have done more than enough to invite aspersions over the years." which of course assumes that Glenn is actually from NOLA.
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I don't see how it assumes that at all, but it isn't worth arguing about and I don't feel like reviewing the thread.

The truth of the matter, though, is that New Orleans most certainly has had a long history of corruption and crime. If the nice folks there don't like having aspersions cast at them, then they really ought to fix the problems.
 
Mikecash- although it was meant in jest, I again appologize. You need not review the thread. The stretch is that although Glenn is from Louisiana, I don't know that he is from New Orleans. Lots of nice folks live in the city and they are always trying to fix these problems. Although what you said may be true, it paints the people of NOLA with a rather broad brush. This current city administration is one in a series that has promised reform. It has been in constant theme in their local politics for decades with little in the way of results.

I also have to appologize to Tim Russert- it wasn't his comments I was reacting to, but another op-ed (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9287434/) critical of Ray Nagin on msnbc. Nagin is accountable and should answer for the operations in the city from 8/26 to 9/1 including the evacuation and the use (or non-use) of the fleet of school busses. Although it should be noted that the actual rate of evacuation in the city was what the Hurricane Pam excersize anticipated, and what the overall emergency plan assumed- the raw number of evacuees is definitely one factor that led to the meltdown in emergency services. On this account Evan Thomas and Russert are absolutely correct.)
 
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