Religion What does religion bring that nothing else can bring ?

[Tsuyoiko]

These two statements seem a bit contradictory. I guess that people with a strong sense of religious superiority would also be very self-confident about their religious beliefs. So do such people only follow their religion because of the sense of superiority it gives them ? I believe that the Jews are a good example. But isn't believing that one race was chosen by god the paramount of (religious) racism ?

The two statements weren't linked. I was giving two different reasons why some people might turn to religion. And I agree that those whose religion makes them feel superior are being 'racist'. Fundamentalists are another example, IMO.

 

[Maciamo]

But as I studied Christianity, it led me to Buddhism, and then I realized that although Christianity doesn't emphasize or elaborate on the better qualities, they are much the same as those found within Buddhism.

So I suppose you were able to take what you like in Christianity and Buddhism, and throw the rest away. That is very praiseworthy as it shows an ability to think critically and adapt your beliefs to your own personality and needs. This is something I like and respect. But following an organised (monotheist) religion almost always means forget about critical thinking and accept the dogma as it is. Protestants have two advantadges over the Catholics : 1) they can make up new branches whenever they disagree with someting, giving more "choice of dogma" (but that's still dogma) to the followers, and 2) it is less organised, without a hierarchy and institutionalised "money-machine" like the Catholic Church (but Protestants do turn their churches into businesses nowadays).

 

[Tsuyoiko]

I guess that people with a strong sense of religious superiority would also be very self-confident about their religious beliefs.

The two statements weren't linked. I was giving two different reasons why some people might turn to religion.

Come to think of it, why would anyone need to feel superior? Couldn't lack of self-confidence lead someone into a religion which tells them they are one of god's chosen people? They don't have self-confidence in their beliefs, but they have confidence in the 'authority' behind those beliefs, which can be a substitute for self-confidence.

 

[4321go]

Nothing else can bring？ I think it can explain the many things that science can not explain. A special mental world that cushion the conflict with the outside world~ so so...

 

[Maciamo]

Come to think of it, why would anyone need to feel superior? Couldn't lack of self-confidence lead someone into a religion which tells them they are one of god's chosen people? They don't have self-confidence in their beliefs, but they have confidence in the 'authority' behind those beliefs, which can be a substitute for self-confidence.

Good point. So religion may give people confidence. The case of the Jews in Israel is a wonderful example of how religion can motivate people to fight for land and feel so sure that they are right, even if they have to die for it.

 

[Mycernius]

To me religion falls into the same catagory as superstition. Both rely on unreasonable fears and strange custom to avoid bad luck. Actually some superstitions are from religious sources. I cannot see the difference between some one who will say I'm not superstitous, but then go to church every sunday, just in case there is a heaven and hell. I once told a pair of mormons who came to my door that religion was for the weak minded and people who couldn't accept responsibilty in their lives. Yes, it probably wasn't nice, but I aws busy and didn't have the time. They had no response to that and left. But I do believe that it is a form of not taking full responsiblity for life. Why blame lifes injustices on yourself and others when you can blame it on the Devil and God. I also find that some religions will prey on the weak or depressed. When life has kicked you in the nuts and maybe you feel that there is the whole world is against you, or why has my Cousin/father/son got cancer these people will suck you into their religion and literally brainwash you. You think I kid? I have seen this happen to more than one person. It happened to my cousin. One year an agnostic and not very religious. The next thing her sister-in-law gets cancer. I see her two years later and she is heavily into religion, along with her brother. Care and support for people can be given without "this God loves you, There is a better place" attitude that religion will do. There are carers that do this everyday and are well respected for it and loved by the sufferer or family, but religion does not come into it. You might gather it something about organised religions I really dispise. I think it is shallow and reveals more about the religion than any book could do. Rant Off

Jehova's witnesses and Mormons to my door.

 

[Tsuyoiko]

You make some great points there Mike.

To me religion falls into the same catagory as superstition. Both rely on unreasonable fears and strange custom to avoid bad luck.

That would actually be worth analysing in some detail - just how many of the customs can be reduced to that? I bet most.

But I do believe that it is a form of not taking full responsiblity for life. Why blame lifes injustices on yourself and others when you can blame it on the Devil and God.

This is something I have said before. I think in some sense, religious people never completely grow up. Instead of taking full responsibility for their lives as an adult, it is actually seen as a positive thing to relinquish some responsibility to god. Some one (might have been Pararousia, though I'm not sure, so apologies if I remembered wrong) said before that non-believers were arrogant for thinking they could manage on their own!

I also find that some religions will prey on the weak or depressed.

I have seen cases where JWs have done just that - around here recently divorced single mothers seem to be a favourite target.

There are carers that do this everyday and are well respected for it and loved by the sufferer or family, but religion does not come into it

And they ask nothing in return - religions always want something back, whether it be volunteer work, donations, or just unquestioning submission to authority.

 

[Iron Chef]

I say let people believe in whatever they want if they feel it gives some sense of meaning to their lives. Whether it be devout Christian, Muslim, agnostic, Buddhist, atheist, Satanist, Scientologist, etc etc, I am not really in a position to be judgmental re: the affairs of the afterlife (assuming one believes there is an afterlife). How could I possibly know? Aahh... there it is then. Faith. Something I am sadly lacking and in short supply... Nevertheless, I envy those who have unwavering convictions and hold fast to them. After two years of formal study as a former Seminarian, I quickly realized that I had neither the strength nor discipline to steel my beliefs so resolutely. Religion is such a sensitive topic for everybody... that's about the only absolute truth I recognize nowadays.

 

[Sensuikan San]

I would agree absolutely with the points and comments made and discussed by Mycernius and Tsuyoiko.

I feel that, for most folks, religion is (and possibly started as...) simply a convenient means by which they can answer "unanswerable" questions .... and as a last resort, "hedge their bets" against all manner of ills that may befall them ... including (last - but by no means least) death and its aftermath.

To me ... it's a "cop-out".

But ....

I say let people believe in whatever they want if they feel it gives some sense of meaning to their lives. Whether it be devout Christian, Muslim, agnostic, Buddhist, atheist, Satanist, Scientologist, etc etc, I am not really in a position to be judgmental re: the affairs of the afterlife (assuming one believes there is an afterlife). How could I possibly know? Aahh... there it is then. Faith. Something I am sadly lacking and in short supply... Nevertheless, I envy those who have unwavering convictions and hold fast to them. After two years of formal study as a former Seminarian, I quickly realized that I had neither the strength nor discipline to steel my beliefs so resolutely. Religion is such a sensitive topic for everybody... that's about the only absolute truth I recognize nowadays.

... I also agree with those sentiments, too. What a great shame that, worldwide, everyone does not feel the same!

?W????

 

[Maciamo]

I also completely agree with the points of Mycernius and Tsuyoiko above.

I say let people believe in whatever they want if they feel it gives some sense of meaning to their lives. Whether it be devout Christian, Muslim, agnostic, Buddhist, atheist, Satanist, Scientologist, etc etc, I am not really in a position to be judgmental re: the affairs of the afterlife (assuming one believes there is an afterlife).

The problem is not what people believe, but that some people use such beliefs to amass money and political power. Note that I am opposed to organised religions, not to individual beliefs.

But if asked what beliefs can be proved wrong by logics or reason, then I can point my finger at some individual beliefs too. But this is not just about religious beliefs, but any irrational beliefs (e.g. superstitions, supernatural, etc.).

 

[Carlson]

Hope...faith...

 

[Revenant]

Hope combined with faith would be something that could make someone optimistic even under the worst conditions. To be truly be able to look forward to heaven, rebirth, or reincarnation would not be a bad way to go out.

 

[Index]

I think an important distinction to be made between religion and philosophy is rituals. Perhaps these then make the religious experience more intense and absorbing than purely intellectual notions and constructs like philosophy, by connecting the (religious) belief with the physical realm and physical senses. In this way the rituals make the experience more tangible and encompassing.

 

[Maciamo]

Hope...faith...

Religion brings faith ? What about faith brings religion ? Either way, it's pretty similar. It's like saying that rain brings bad weather...

Hope ? Does that mean that all or most religious people are essentially desperate people ? (or would be desperate without religion) ? That's possibly the saddest thing I have ever heard.

 

[Maciamo]

I think an important distinction to be made between religion and philosophy is rituals. Perhaps these then make the religious experience more intense and absorbing than purely intellectual notions and constructs like philosophy, by connecting the (religious) belief with the physical realm and physical senses. In this way the rituals make the experience more tangible and encompassing.

But what do rituals really bring to human condition ? For example, what do Christian mass and communion add to one's existence ? If it's just for an intense and absorbing experience, then one could as well observe nature, read an interesting book or play video games, and probably experience something more intense and absorbing.

 

[Index]

But what do rituals really bring to human condition ? For example, what do Christian mass and communion add to one's existence ? If it's just for an intense and absorbing experience, then one could as well observe nature, read an interesting book or play video games, and probably experience something more intense and absorbing.

Good question. Perhaps they function to make the religion more tangible, while psychologically you become more involved, which is good for keeping followers (excuse my cynicism). I don't think the rituals in themselves bring anything to the human condition per se, but make the religion more of a "complete package"-makes the relgion more attractive.

Rituals are one of the things you didn't include in your list of things contained in religions that can be found elsewhere.

 

[Tsuyoiko]

Hope...

I hope that people more people will question what they have been told and think for themselves, instead of being slaves to comforting beliefs. I hope that science will continue to make discoveries that help us to better understand the universe. I hope I get lots of video games for Christmas. Those are just three of the many things an atheist can hope for.

faith...

But science can only be created by those who are thoroughly imbued with...faith in the possibility that the regulations valid for the world of existence are rational, that is, comprehensible to reason. I cannot conceive of a genuine scientist without that profound faith

 

[belle74311]

Well...the most important thing you said Maciamo is that even non-religious people believe in God without religion. This is because God is our Creator and it's in our nature to believe in Him. Anything other than that is an unnatural and forced thing. One atheist said before believing in God that it was such an effort NOT to believe in God. It's because that idea is going against our very own nature.

Now the question of why do we belong to religious organizations. Don't get me wrong, if you believe in God at all, and the Oneness of God, no matter what religion you are, that's the MOST important thing.

Say you buy the newest technological appliance and you know what it is but you have no knowlege of how to work it because it's new to you...what is the first thing that you would do? Look for an instruction mannual right? OR you can decide to throw it away and ignore it and try to figure it out yourself, this is your own choice. BUT you will have a very hard time AND you might even break it.

This is the same thing for human beings. God sent down instructions on how to BEST take care of everything about our life. So belonging to a religious organization is following that set of instruction manuals. BUT people through time have corrupted those instructions, so God out of His Mercy, sent down those instructions time after time to every people so that no one is left out of the warning of what we should do w/our life and how to take care of it.

So it's up to us to look and search for the True word of God, so that we don't go off on the wrong path. This is why people follow a certain religion. BUT it will only bring clarity if you're following the true, uncorrupted religion. I hope this helps!

 

[Tsuyoiko]

Hi Belle!

One atheist said before believing in God that it was such an effort NOT to believe in God. It's because that idea is going against our very own nature.

I can vouch for the effort - but nothing good comes without hard work. I believe that the desire and ability to go against our nature is one of the things that humans should strive towards.

Say you buy the newest technological appliance and you know what it is but you have no knowlege of how to work it because it's new to you...what is the first thing that you would do? Look for an instruction mannual right?

I would usually try to figure out for myself how to work it - although that way might take longer than the manual, I will learn valuable things along the way that aren't in the manual.

God sent down instructions on how to BEST take care of everything about our life. So belonging to a religious organization is following that set of instruction manuals.

Again, I would prefer to figure it out for myself, rather than submit to this (IMO) fictional authority.

 

[kirei_na_me]

Again, I would prefer to figure it out for myself, rather than submit to this (IMO) fictional authority.

Yes!

......