The Albanian language

[Zeus10]

And here it is in a random facebook conversation nowdays:

 

[Zeus10]

See, this is where you make a foregone conclusion: why do you have the premise that the ancestral language must have been more simple? Why is it our expectation that the ancestral language must have had a more simple structure? I can offhand think of four living languages (all in the Caucasus) that have a phonology that is similarly complex or greater than standard reconstructed Proto-Indo-European, including Abkhaz, Chechen, Georgian and most notably Ubykh. If you want other parts of the world, I'd suggest Burushaski, or perhaps the Salish languages. Just because Albanian is relatively simple compared to other Indo-European languages doesn't automatically mean it's more representative of the original condition. In fact, there's a lot of reasons to assume that it isn't:

- Latvian and Lithuanian have both a considerably more complex grammar than Albanian and they are both languages that are attested only relatively late. In fact, both have the earliest literature later than Albanian.

Well, let me ask you a question: How much do you know about Albanian grammar to be in the position to estimate the complexity of it compared to the other languages ones? And by the way, what does grammar have to do to the primordial word phonetical structure of the language? Grammar can govern over clauses and phrases but never over the ideophones and onomatopoeias which are GIVEN naturally and they are in my opinion the primordial structure cells of the languages.

(bear in mind that Albanian lacks an instrumental and locative case)

And then what? Isn't Latin and Greek also which merged these two cases in their respectivaly ablative and dative ones? And beside that, in Albanian although is so frequently used the vocative, our linguists never bothered themselves to add this in the grammar cases. In total Albanian have 6 noun cases which makes it one of richest among other languages.

 

[Yetos]

And here it is in a random facebook conversation nowdays:

Very intereasting and Scientific

:useless:


Sory but a bucket of nationalistic ideas that starts from times of H Kissinger is not science.
believe what ever, you are not convincing me.

especially in the case of Greek language, may I remind you that was not a lingua Franca in Balkans
as in other places,

and if in Pontic mountains Greek call the door Θυρα surely is not after Albanian Dera,
and Aphrodite is after αφρος +διος = god of Foam
and not by apher dita
most of Greek gods share the -di- which is after Dios and not after Dita

so when you have something to say about Latin and Greek better be something good and not 'phantasies'

when freedom came to Greece guys like you make ,ethods and theories about the Greek origin of everything even the IE language,
the mania was big and people buy cheap fiction about the superb
considering that times I believe the phenomena strikes Albania about same time that stroke Greece after Liberty.
these people sometime got honored, but today everybody is laughing,

 

[Endri]

You are misleading people here, and I don't know why. You as a native Albanian speaker MUST know that
ynë and jonë
are synonyms, the first one is used when the noun is in masch. ex.--biri ynë; and the second one is used for femin. ex: toka jonë.
If you dont know this just open a dictionary online:

http://argjiro.net/fjalor/index.php

If you look like 2-3 post more you'll see that I already apologized for my mistake...

This is your second time that you are accusing me for trying to confuse other people. If you are a kid and are looking for some attention you better step aside, if you really think that :




then you better learn your own language, because the primarily meaning for "çel" is 'to open' or hap(alb)[another synonym), and it has been like this at least since the year 1635.

Ok, so you're saying that all those "words" i said aren't more or less synonyms to the word "to open"???

And of course, lets use the age card here. You're a kid and since you're a kid your opinion doesn't matter cause you're dumb, idiot, immature, ignorant ect. Seriously i can 5 or 555, to you shouldn't matter. If you don't agree to MY opinion you can say so. Unlike you, I'm not close minded and if I'm wrong I'm not ashamed or anything like that to admit my mistake.

Here it is, from Pietro Bogdano 1685



Transcription

E ky krue i gjalle e kete të q'jane te amëshueshim per te nji mende anshte Hyji krijues i t'pamet, e t'pa pamet, i nalte per mbij gjithe kupet e çiellët, i pushtueshim, i mëshirueshim, i mire, i drejte, i madh pa masë, anë e skanj..................

As far as i can see and know about Pjeter Bogdani, this text written using Italian orthography and in Italian orthography the group "ch+i" means "ki" not "çi".

And here it is in a random facebook conversation nowdays:

Best example. A FB conversation, cause we all know how much people write correctly...especially this folks who seem to not be able to distinguish /q/ from /ç/. Not that i care but I hope they don't know smo called "çimi" cause that would be just terrible...

 

[Zeus10]

As far as i can see and know about Pjeter Bogdani, this text written using Italian orthography and in Italian orthography the group "ch+i" means "ki" not "çi". ...

Wrong again, from the same text:

chiesa(it)=kisha

Best example. A FB conversation, cause we all know how much people write correctly...especially this folks who seem to not be able to distinguish /q/ from /ç/. Not that i care but I hope they don't know smo called "çimi" cause that would be just terrible

That's the whole point, if they had used the standard language ortography we wouldn't have known their dialectical sound which is like this:


Gegs(especially Albanians from Kosova) use q whereas Tosks use ç in their pronounciation, and vice-verca.

 

[Zeus10]

See, this is where you make a foregone conclusion: why do you have the premise that the ancestral language must have been more simple? Why is it our expectation that the ancestral language must have had a more simple structure?

Because everything in nature works like this, from the simplest to most complex. Let me take you by hand explaining this process (through two very significant examples), which in my opinion determined the evolution of the natural languages.

1. Ideophone
2 Onomatopoeia

1. Albanian contrary to the other European languages, is full of terms of c-v and c-v-c stucture, which in my opinion are the earliest word forms of the natural spoken languages, especially on verbs which are also the back bones of the other parts of the speech. How do they appear?
A primitive c-v structure is compounded by an 'ideo-sound' consonant + a 'fluid' vowel.

For example the consonant L evokes a sensation of movement, or displacement. Combined with a very 'unostacled' vowel like ë, it creates a primitive word 'lë'-(leave), which generated hundreds of other words with a similar semantics, not only in Albanian but in every European language. The closest one in that perspective is the the word of the c-v-c structure: (me) lësh-u(re[leas]e), by adding just another consonant which serves to slightly deviate the meaning. Then the word was borrowed from the languages of the Latin origin (ex. lëshu-->lascia(it)) and from them 'traveled' to neo-Latin ones, and from them to English.
Depending on which vowel follows the consonant we will have a bone(consonant)-flash(vowel) structure, bearing a new meaning very close to the orginal one. Ex.

lë----leave
la----left
ly-----colorare(paint)
lu-aj----play
lu-aj----cillo(move)

The process is long and complex, but for now is good enough to create an idea.

continues (2)

 

[Zeus10]

2. Onomatopeia
As you might know onomatopeia is a word:

... that imitates or suggests the source of the sound that it describes

Try to scratch your skin, the immediate sound result will be krrrrr and Albanian language imitates it by a very 'loyal' word (me) kru which is kru-aj(standart Albanian).

The next closest sound in nature which results in a c(a)rving is grrrrr, which again gives an immediate Albanian immitative word: (me) grry or gërry-ej (carv-ing), a process usually resulting with a deeper scratch. The verb itself derives a noun:

gërry-ej---> gropë(hole)

the same Albanian(the same to mother language) verb has given at least one meaning in English:
'grave'.

When a reinforcing consonant sh is added in front of the onomatopeic word 'kru' in Albanian , a new word is being rendered(bearing an early perceveiment) (me) 'shkru' (write) which was borowed from the Latins to give 'scrive' and then in English 'script':

being the earliest writing the humanity has performed.

 

[Yetos]

Because everything in nature works like this, from the simpler to more complex. Let me take you by hand explaining this process to you through two very significant examples, which in my opinion determined the evolution of the natural languages.

1. Ideophone
2 Onomatopoeia

1. Albanian contrary to the other European languages, is full of terms of c-v and c-v-c stucture, which in my opinion are the earliest word forms of the natural spoken languages, especially on verbs which are also the back bones of the other parts of the speech. How do they appear?
A primitive c-v structure is compunded by an 'ideo-sound' consonant + a 'fluid' vowel.

For example the consonant L evokes a sensation of movement, or displacement. Combined with a very 'unostacled' vowel like ë, it creates a primitive word 'lë'-(leave), which generated hundreds of other words with a similar semantics, not only in Albanian but in every European language. The closest one in that perspective is the the word of the c-v-c structure: (me) lësh-u(re[leas]e), by adding just another consonant which serves to slightly deviate the meaning. Then the word was borrowed from the languages of the Latin origin (ex. lëshu-->lascia(it)) and from them 'traveled' to neo-Latin ones, and from them to English.
Depending on which vowel follows the consonant we will have a bone(consonant)-flash(vowel) structure, bearing a new meaning very close to the orginal one. Ex.

lë----leave
la----left
ly-----colorare(paint)
lu-aj----play
lu-aj----cillo(move)

The process is long and complex, but for now is good enough to create an idea.

continues (2)

AND AGAIN YOUR COMPARE WITH GREEK IS OUTRAGEOUS,

WHY YOU USE WRONG WORDS THAT SOUND SAME BUT MEANS TOTTALY NOTHING?

English Leave Greek φευ (φυγη) Ιλασις until today the word is used by Greeks, but rare due to mostly use virb φευ-γω
in Pontic greeks as ιλασκω (virb)
in rest of Greeks as λασκα - χαλαρα etc
the most ancient exprension that Greeks use is
Εγεια μολα εγεια λεσσα
from υγειως μολησωμεν υγειως ιλασκωμεν
meaning With Health we leave with Health with return


I wonder why PIE must be Albanian Le and not Greek ila ?

now back to the words you use
English Leave Greek leipein (missing, connected with ανελιπως ) απαλλαγη (απο+αλλαγη = from+change)

telere popolo people with polis and polloi? πολις can be compared with Thracian polje wich means fench - small fortication perimeter, that is πολιτις means citizen that cares about the polis
polloi means many as you see it is written with double ll a law of greek grammar that when υ ισ αφτερ λυγρα (fluid liquid) ρ and l goes double
πολυ = plenty (compare plenty not people) goes polloi πολλοι
but Πολος (polar) goes poloi πολοι
λικε ρυθμος and αρρυθμια

MAN PLZ STOP ******** LATIN AND ANCIENT GREEK CAUSE YOU HAVE NO IDEA AT LEAST WHAT THE WORDS MEAN


your ΔΡΑΜΑ (drama) is so big that you don't understand that word LECTURE is after Greek word ΛΕΚΤΩΡ

Watch how you ***** Language



Lashte left palaios


παλαιος means Old not left
Makedonian Pellas Πελας
Aeolian Pelios Pilios Πηλιος
Ionian Παλαιος


No further comment
All the example given in Greek are fail
why cause you put them just to give prestige in your work, cause a mention to a correct ancient Greek word gives some prestige in a work,


search more
Θυρα
port
dera
door

as you see the aspirations are different, it is obviouw if search more to be driven to more Northern languages than to Latin and Greek
Κenge (kagkur-as gagkar-os)
Canto
Song !!!!!
Ωδη-ασμα

 

[Yetos]

2. Onomatopeia
As you might know onomatopeia is a word:



Try to scratch your skin, the immediate sound result will be krrrrr and Albanian language imitates it by a very 'loyal' word (me) kru which is kru-aj(standart Albanian).

The next closest sound in nature which results in a c(a)rving is grrrrr, which again gives an immediate Albanian immitative word: (me) grry or gërry-ej (carv-ing), a process usually resulting with a deeper scratch. The verb itself derives a noun:

gërry-ej---> gropë(hole)

the same Albanian(the same to mother language) verb has given at least one meaning in English:
'grave'.

When a reinforcing consonant sh is added in front of the onomatopeic word 'kru' in Albanian , a new word is being rendered(bearing an early perceveiment) (me) 'shkru' (write) which was borowed from the Latins to give 'scrive' and then in English 'script':

being the earliest writing the humanity has performed.

Now point Post

Ονοματοποιεια Greek word
means to create name, to give names to subjects

lets
scratch
if I use scratch for sharp an axe Ξεω Ξυνω (virb οξυνω ) from sound xxxx kssssss ( I scratch a man's back but not deep to make a mark)

Scratch
if I Scrath deeper and leave marks sound is hhrrrrr xxρρρρ so we extract virb χ(α)ρασ-ω haras-o and scratch is χαραγη

Scratch with Tool
so when I Scratch I get a result, but If I Use a tool how that will be
the tool must have sounds like hrrr and root of words make
in Greek make is ποιω so the meaning is I make scratces or Hrrrr nose with it
lets see Hr+poi -> Χραπις Hrapis sound laws of h->γ π ->f so Γραφις Graphis (the tool that is used to scratch deep enough to make Mark)
So Grafis γραφις work is γραφη Graphe graphi and the Virb is Γραφω Whraf-o inf Whraphein

so what does that mean? English Write is after Greek Whraph-ein


as you see the word Graphics Graphical is a Loan to English Language but not the word write

cause all languages have ονοματοποιεια

now the more deeper I dig the more I get a sound like uuuu (deeper sound)
so the hrrrrr goes to hur χυρ so extract Κυρτος virb κυρτ-ωνω Kurt-ono simmilar to English Curve

so IS ENGLISH CURVE AFTER GREEK ΚΥΡΤΩΝΩ?

the sound of krrr
Scratch by Hammer strike

now if I strike the hammer I produse sounds very stable or mettalic like K krrrr
so a virb that describes Mettalic strikes or Krush that can be exact is Κρου-ω (compare Kruaj!!!!)

so what that means? Crush κρουσις is after Albanian Kruaj? (crush after scratch?) etrified:


Now as you see by Using your Method I prove the opposite :cool-v:

so by Using Onomatopoieia you prove nothing, at least where you aim,


cause with same method I prove you that Albanian is rough Greek

THAT IS BECAUSE IE LANGUAGES HAVE RELATIONS

REMEMBER THAT MOST NATURE sound LANGUAGES of IE are the Slavic languages
so with your method it is more easier to be proved that Albanian is rough Slavic

consider that the most preservative IE language is Lithuanian

A joke that we use in Greece for scientific methods like the one you describe.

-in Japan they were kimono?,
-yes its like a coat with belt but little different
-oh I see
- You know kimono is a Greek word
-what?
-yes the word for the winter in Greek is χειμωνας (himonas) so in winter we wear coats so kimono is after Greek ximonas :grin:

Yet I believe that kimono is a word earlier than the time Greeks reach Nippon


remember all words have their own onomatopoieia which was not found by Albanians neither Greeks neither Latins but from early IE and followed its path of language evolution to provide modern languages


Your theory is based in assuptions that can be in every IE language,
with same assuptions I can prove that Germanic is after PIE before all other
and you deny examples like
aiwa dhi w->dh
womph dhemp w->dh

which are found also in other languages
aiwa αιγα w->γ
womph γομφιος w->γ

except if Albanians travel also to India so to give their onomatopoieia to Sanshqrit like the Greeks with word Kimono in the joke above,

 

[Zeus10]

for you info watch the video

it is only spoken by 5000 people mainly old who never wend to school, due to change of population and Turkish education
at least Linguistacally it is considered the most ancient IE language that is spoken today,

No Need more,

Yetos, I must ask you to stop with this baiting, it's entirely uncalled for.

Taranis, let's enjoy him. Trying to prove me wrong he confirmed my point that you are desperately trying to deny. The so called Ancient Greek Language has been named in the video Romaiika(The language of the Romans), because this is what the true Ancient Greeks were, Roman citizens or if you would like to use recently coined word 'nation', they were a Roman nation, that's is why they called themselves Ρωμαίοι.

 

[Yetos]

Taranis, let's enjoy him. Trying to prove me wrong he confirmed my point that you are desperately trying to deny. The so called Ancient Greek Language has been named in the video Romaiika(The language of the Romans), because this is what the true Ancient Greeks were, Roman citizens or if you would like to use recently coined word 'nation', they were a Roman nation, that's is why they called themselves Ρωμαίοι.

Funny isn't it

these people speak Archaic Greek Ionian estimated at about 700 BC old
but they call them shelves as Romans due to East roman empire

a mix of Persian Aryan and Greeks who over them pass Empires still resist
and see what ?






when people show the moon he see the Finger

Byzantine never existed as a terminology before 1800

The official name was ROMANS ΡΩΜΑΙΟΙ

Turks still recogn the Byzantines as East Roman and the language as Rumlar
for 600 years Turks name them Rums, and you see it as a joke?

You are not denying Glossology, But History also

if you knew little History then you could recogn that Byzantines were shelfed named Roman
and constantinoupolis as NOVA ROMA
inside byzantine there many Languages but Official was Romano-Latin and at the late times Greek

These Paople Speak ancient Greek and they name it as Roman due to late times EAST ROMAN EMPIRE LANGUAGE

sorry I am destroying your theories but I am tired of all propagandists who get paid by secret founds


TELL US PLZ how Byzantines name Their Shelfs?

go ahead tell Taranis and the rest who who read us how byzantines declere their shelves?
tell us how Albanian area noble's declare their shelfs, if not as Roman's

inside byzantine empire all citizen's were named Romans

and lingua Franca was Latin not Greek and that is why Aromani population still speak Latin and not Italian until the times of schisma,
after schisma and Maniakis Byzantine started to accept Greek as secondary to finalize to primary language

your are funny cause if you really are local and and ancient in Albania then surely you know that there were times your grand-grand Fathers were using the name Romans to declare them shelves

Remember that when Slaughter of non Christians were done the only way to save your shelve was to declare Roman and Christian

RUMEYIKA ΡΩΜΑΙΙΚΑ MEANS THE LANGUAGE OF EAST BYZANTINE EMPIRE
ΡΩΜΑΙΚΑ MEANS THE LANGUAGE OF WEST ROMAN EMPIRE


When your friend Mohamet II gave his orders after the fall of Nova ROMA he recogn all citizen's in many categories

Turks who should be Muslims and Turkish Speaking
Rumlars who were Christian and Greek Speaking

the pre Con/polis Fall

the ones who kept their religion but change language (Armenians Greeks Genovese-Venician Russian minorities)
the ones who kept their language and accept Islam (Pomaks Albanians Laz Arabs etc)

 

[Zeus10]

ahahahaha

These paople Speak ancient Greek language

Byzantine never existed as a terminology before 1800

The official name was ROMANS ΡΩΜΑΙΟΙ

Turks still recogn the Byzantines as East Roman and the language as Rumlar

if you knew little History then you could recogn that Byzantines were shelfed named Roman and constantinoupolis as NOVA ROMA

Excactly, thank you.

TELL US PLZ how Byzantines name Their Shelfs?

βιβλιοθήκη

tell us how Albanian area noble's declare their shelfs, if not as Roman's

Nope we call them 'rafte'.

 

[Yetos]

βιβλιοθήκη



Nope we call them 'rafte'.

ahahahahahaha

Byzantines call them shelves βιβλιοθηκη?


ahahahaha

so their monograms and their visas were saying rafte?

ahahahahaha


Thank you

Greek colonists from Milletus Sinope etc Keep language as its proto forms for more than 2600 years under Persian Roman Turkish infuence and pressure

and you see it as a joke?




NO comment

 

[Taranis]

Let's end this charade. Closed.