Politics Should Crimea be an independent country? (Russian-Ukrainian conflict)

[LeBrok]

Dutch people were responsible for the genocide on Kurds! They sold chemical weapons to Saddam Hussein in return for Kurdish oil from Kurdistan!
After the genocide, Holland accepted many Kurds from southern Kurdistan because the Dutch government felt guilty and acknowledged being responsible for genocide against the Kurds

And what are you talking about and why are you twisting my words again? I'm not against Holland, I’m against the USA hegemony! The USA hegemony is very bad for my homeland and my people!

Holland belongs to NATO together with US and Turkey. And this is also where part of your tax money goes.

 

[Goga]

Holland belongs to NATO together with US and Turkey. And this is also where part of your tax money goes.

There's a Dutch socialist party (SP) here that is against NATO. According to this party NATO should be abolished and this Dutch party is also against human rights violations and other fascist policies in Turkey. And I do always vote for them! This party is very big. BTW, here in Holland we almost have no army, we only have some fighter jets and that's all, no tanks nothing. Since Holland is part of the EU and surrounded by close allies and also EU members an army is practically useless in this part of the world. This is OT, why are you always forcing to go OT?

 

[martiko]

Are you serious? When Saddam Hussein committed a genocide on Kurds Saddam Hussein was a hugeally of the USA

Saddam Hussein with Donald Rumsfeld

http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/

The mustard gas and nerve gas Saddam Hussein used was supplied by the USA, Germany, the Netherlands and some other European countries

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-153210/Rumsfeld-helped-Iraq-chemical-weapons.html

Dutchmen Frans van Anraat was thedirect and main supplier of chemical weapons to Saddam Hussein that were used againstthe Kurds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frans_van_Anraat

This was not new, evenduring Churchill gassed Kurds, because the British Empire wanted Kurdish oil andKurds resisted to become slaves of the European Powers.

The West (Western Europe andthe USA) always supported the enemies of the Kurds. The western powers areallies of Turks and Arabs. The western world have been always seeing Kurds astheir enemies, since the Saladin (Kurd) liberated Jerusalem from the Crusaders.

That's why I'm against the Western unipolar hegemony on this planet. Because than they can do whatever they want, fearing nobody. That's why this must be stopped! The power will be divide again. The world will become multipolar. The USA have to swallow their pride and take some steps back. I don't like Russia, but I don't like the arrogance and the hegemony of the USA either.

Why stay here in fascist EEC ( according to you), not you afraid of being gassed with Russian gas?
Go to your Russian friends and so we may take the Ukrainian here.
When taking positions they should take on or is loose.

 

[Ike]

Lol, some obscure left wing publishing company knows the truth. I'm sure they have secret agents in Ukrainian politics and print the truth.

Let's look at varied and objective books they sell:
-Globalization of poverty
- Towards a WWIII
-9/11 uncovering ten years of deception
-the Globalization of NATO
-America war on terrorizm
-NATO war on Libya and Africa
-Scramble for Africa
-Globalization of Poverty and New World Order
-Hidden agenda of Genetic Manipulation
-Economic crisis, Great Depression of XXI century

I'm sure you are reading these conspiracy theorists very often.

Not even one title about good old Russia? Not on Russia helping Ukraine to get prosperous? Nothing about good communism? Just books on ugly NATO, bad America, and greedy business.
Do you really consider them to be an objective publisher?

OK, you have the right to ignore the source.

Enlighten me what time on this video I have to listen for EU supporting Ukrainian nazis? I must have missed that proof.

If you're wanting to hear USA president say "I support nacists" then you will never have evidence.

Oh, maybe you implying that when EU or US helps all ukrainian people they will indirectly help ultra-nationalists too. So they are implicated. These sneaky politicians, damn.

Why indirectly? They are directly supporting them. Why aren't they supporting Yanaukovich which is latest legitimate president, chosen democratically by the will of majority?

By the same logic EU is anti-russian.

I don't know. That is not the subject. Why would we involve Russia into this now?

What a matriculate logic. All friends and sympathetic people to Ukraine must be nazi and Russian haters. There is no other way. Thanks for helping.

Only thing that people that think like that do, is helping start a war in Ukraine. Ukraine also says to you [irony on] Thanx for helping [irony off].

Is your math failing you?

View attachment 6283


Off course not. You talk like you never went to college or read a book on semantics. It is obvious that what is considered ultra-something like: ultra-conservative in Finland won't be considered ultra-conservative in Pakistan. It was not the point of this thread to fine tune the terminology of nationalism.

You seem to have a problem with my designation of what's fascist and what's anti-fascist here on Balkan, while you know nothing about current events or history of Anti-Fascist Council of Yugoslavia and find yourself com competent to label organizations here on Balkan better than me. Nice

And once again, for the 3rd time (LoL) they are all banned here. Understand, banned? That's the point, not how are they called.
Anyway, I see no point talking about it here, when the subject are Ukrainian nazis right NOW. They use Ukrainian WW2 SS symbols, they praise Ukrainian WW2 criminals, they talk about ethnically clean state of Ukraine, clean of Jews, Russians and others. How did you get that in relation to nationalistic Obraz movemen from Serbia, that is banned, and it's leader put behind bars. Why are you red-harringing?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...ian-leader-gay-threats-jailed-_n_1382769.html

We are just against branding all Ukrainians as nazis by you.

That's totally not true!! Neither do I think so, nor have I ever said anything that would designate all Ukrainians as nacists. Why are you making up things?

 

[Goga]

Why stay here in fascist EEC ( according to you), not you afraid of being gassed with Russian gas?
Go to your Russian friends and so we may take the Ukrainian here.
When taking positions they should take on or is loose.

Is this a joke? What has this conflict to do with me? I'm just giving my opinion, can I? I know many 'native' Europeans that don't like the USA policies either, should they go to Russia too?

 

[martiko]

Is this a joke? What has this conflict to do with me? I'm just giving my opinion, can I?

When my family fled Gernika (Errentery) was to come to France and the difference between us: I thank the France and you shit on Holland.

Go and Russia today provides gas for Syrian and also airplanes and helicopters.
Tomorrow maybe even provide Iraqi minorities to defend the Iraqi Kurds in the province.
And then: that you sing in the morning?

Obviously at this point, there will be no more fascists in Western Iraq

 

[Goga]

When my family fled Gernika (Errentery) was to come to France and the difference between us: I thank the France and you shit on Holland

You drank to much of a red French wine or what? May I ask you what have France and Holland to do with this conflict between Ukraine and Russia? I don't understand your logic, please enlighten me. You act like the USA is a country of saints. As far as I know neither France nor Holland created a conflict between Russia and Ukraine.

 

[martiko]

You drank to much of a red French wine or what? May I ask you what have France and Holland to do with this conflict between Ukraine and Russia? I don't understand your logic, please enlighten me. You act like the USA is a country of saints. As far as I know neither France nor Holland created a conflict between Russia and Ukraine.

Be respectful
I return the question :
ask yourself what are Europe and Holland to do with Putin's aggression against democracy?
for me:
an aditional reason, be sympathetic Ukraine, having a child with Ukrainian.

 

[Ike]

Is this a joke? What has this conflict to do with me? I'm just giving my opinion, can I? I know many 'native' Europeans that don't like the USA policies either, should they go to Russia too?

He's implementing a false dilemma on you.

"False dilemma can arise intentionally, when fallacy is used in an attempt to force a choice (such as, in some contexts, the assertion that "if you are not with us, you are against us"). But the fallacy can also arise simply by accidental omission of additional options rather than by deliberate deception."

 

[Goga]

Be respectful
I return the question :
ask yourself what are Europe and Holland to do with Putin's aggression against democracy?
for me:
an aditional reason, be sympathetic Ukraine, having a child with Ukrainian.

So you want an Ukrainian wife and an Ukrainina child. Good for you, nobody is stopping you, neither me nor Putin! But what has this to do with the democracy in Holland? And Putin is not against the democracy in Holland! Putin, as an elected leader of Russia, is defending the interests of his country. And about what kind of democracy are you talking about? If the U.S. believed in democracy they would never support, countries like Egypt, Saudi-Arabia, Turkey and Islamic (Al-Qaeda) terrorists in Syria!

 

[martiko]

So you want an Ukrainian wife and an Ukrainina child. Good for you, nobody is stopping you, neither me nor Putin! But what has this to do with the democracy in Holland? And Putin is not against the democracy in Holland! Putin, as an elected leader of Russia, is defending the interests of his country. And about what kind of democracy are you talking about? If the U.S. believed in democracy they would never support, countries like Egypt, Saudi-Arabia, Turkey and Islamic (Al-Qaeda) terrorists in Syria!

you interpret, read better, I do not have a Ukrainian wife. And the reason that inspires me is the defense of democracy and nationalism as not for you.
I have a lot of respect for Russian culture but I hate Mujik as Putin. Many Russian ashamed for him but they can not tell people like you.

 

[Alan]

They think Russia is like Lybia, Iraq or Syria, lol. Some kind of a land where they can impose their will. I don't know why but here in the West they do always underestimate Russia. I used to be a huge fan of Klitschkos, but the oldest sister lost my respect. I still like the younger brother though.

Why did you lose respect for the older brother?

Dear Goga you are once again leaning to much out of the window and mixing too extremely emotions with real politics. All before the 21th century we Kurds were not "important" enough and have been betrayed by allot of countries in the West as well East.

I don't need to remind you how we were betrayed.

Real Politics is not a "I wish " game. Just because you want "balance" in power doesn't mean it will happen. No one said Russia will go down, it is economically strong.

In your "emotional rage" once again you throw with accusations around which will neither be beneficial to us nor change what has happened. If it wasn't Holland or Germany who sold the Chemical weapons, it would have been other countries. The production of Chemicals on itself is a crime but unfortunately this is what is still going on. You can't criticize one side while at the same time the other is doing the same. Syrian Chemical weapons are mostly made in cooperation with Soviet Union and Egypt.

However I agree with you on one point. US has been very ignorant the last year towards the Kurds, because 1. they saw the Kurdish support as granted. 2. Ally pressure (Turkey) 3. They still hold on their nonsensical idea that "the region would be more destabilized " (When was the Near East ever stable and how much can it actually be more unstable than it currently is).

Russia is a big help in Syrian Kurdistan but not just out of "sympathy" but because One of our main enemies (Al Qaida) is also the enemy of Assad and because Russia saw the Middle East changing and (contrary to US) reacted to it better by seeing how the Kurdish question is gaining more importance.

However Kurds in Iran (their own ally) Russia never lost nor will they lose a word.

Yet we need the support of the West as well the East

You react emotional and expect us Kurds to be isolated from Western and Eastern powers which is impossible and will turn us decades back.

 

[Goga]

Why did you lose respect for the older brother?

He is still arguably the best boxer ever, but he proved to be a human too like we all are. An egocentric human that makes mistakes and also like most humans hunger for power. He wants to become a mayor in Kiev. His greatest mistake is teaming up with corrupt and fascist leaders in Western Ukraine.

 

[martiko]

Why did you lose respect for the older brother?

Dear Goga you are once again leaning to much out of the window and mixing too extremely emotions with real politics. All before the 21th century we Kurds were not "important" enough and have been betrayed by allot of countries in the West as well East.

I don't need to remind you how we were betrayed.

Real Politics is not a "I wish " game. Just because you want "balance" in power doesn't mean it will happen. No one said Russia will go down, it is economically strong.

In your "emotional rage" once again you throw with accusations around which will neither be beneficial to us nor change what has happened. If it wasn't Holland or Germany who sold the Chemical weapons, it would have been other countries. The production of Chemicals on itself is a crime but unfortunately this is what is still going on. You can't criticize one side while at the same time the other is doing the same. Syrian Chemical weapons are mostly made in cooperation with Soviet Union and Egypt.

However I agree with you on one point. US has been very ignorant the last year towards the Kurds, because 1. they saw the Kurdish support as granted. 2. Ally pressure (Turkey) 3. They still hold on their nonsensical idea that "the region would be more destabilized " (When was the Near East ever stable and how much can it actually be more unstable than it currently is).

Russia is a big help in Syrian Kurdistan but not just out of "sympathy" but because One of our main enemies (Al Qaida) is also the enemy of Assad and because Russia saw the Middle East changing and (contrary to US) reacted to it better by seeing how the Kurdish question is gaining more importance.

However Kurds in Iran (their own ally) Russia never lost nor will they lose a word.

Yet we need the support of the West as well the East

You react emotional and expect us Kurds to be isolated from Western and Eastern powers which is impossible and will turn us decades back.

strange! you come to your senses.
Basque or Catalan had no hatred for the French because French German planes had electrical systems. The indusriels who sold did not know the result. The Soviets did not hate french because German tanks were often made in France, the French had no choice, the Japanese had no hatred for Albert Einstein .... etc. .....
Ukrainians have no hatred for the Russian people but Putin and all the profiteers, and it is because of this mafia gangrene hope that the Ukrainian people in the European democratic ideal.
And it could spread.
I do not think that the Ukrainian nationalists like Europe and I think he hates only slightly less than the Russian nationalists, because they already have the problem with invaders.
But if the meaning flowed much in Ukraine and the Russian people do not move, so there would be a reaction, but I do not know which reaction.

 

[Goga]

Yet we need the support of the West as well the East

You react emotional and expect us Kurds to be isolated from Western and Eastern powers which is impossible and will turn us decades back.

This topic is about Russo-Ukrainian conflict. And the topic starter asked for an opinion. And I'm giving my opinion, that's all. I have a right to have my own opnion. I'm an open person, I say in what I do believe. Doesn't matter for me how many friends or enemies I make with my opnion. I don't represent any group, only myself!

I know that both camps are wrong and they both protect their own interests. But what I'm trying to say is that the U.S. is most of the time wrong, like everybody else. At this moment they do support a regime that took power from a democratic elected leader through a coup.

And believe me I'm not emotional at all. When I write comments on internet, it's always with a huge smile on my face.

 

[Alan]

strange! you come to your senses.
Basque or Catalan had no hatred for the French because French German planes had electrical systems. The indusriels who sold did not know the result. The Soviets did not hate french because German tanks were often made in France, the French had no choice, the Japanese had no hatred for Albert Einstein .... etc. .....
Ukrainians have no hatred for the Russian people but Putin and all the profiteers, and it is because of this mafia gangrene hope that the Ukrainian people in the European democratic ideal.
And it could spread.
I do not think that the Ukrainian nationalists like Europe and I think he hates only slightly less than the Russian nationalists, because they already have the problem with invaders.

I never lost my sense, simply became a bit more emotional as usual, understandable if someone tries to play down the oppression which was and still is going on against my people.

I never gave Holland or any other country fault because they sold weapons. This would just go to far and is simply meant to find some guilty for our misery.

But yet, in my opinion countries should be more careful to who they sell weapons.

 

[Alan]

This topic is about Russo-Ukrainian conflict. And the topic starter asked for an opinion. And I'm giving my opinion, that's all. I have a right to have my own opnion. I'm an open person, I say in what I do believe. Doesn't matter for me how many friends or enemies I make with my opnion. I don't represent any group, only myself!

I know that both camps are wrong and they both protect their own interests. But what I'm trying to say is that the U.S. is most of the time wrong, like everybody else. At this moment they do support a regime that took power from a democratic elected leader through a coup.

And believe me I'm not emotional at all. When I write comments on internet, it's always with a huge smile on my face.

The amount of ! or !?!?! you use or the way you formulate your arguments are beyond just a smile

I have no personal opinion about this conflict, nor will it change my view or opinion about any side.

 

[LeBrok]

All before the 21th century we Kurds were not "important" enough and have been betrayed by allot of countries in the West as well East.
.

You're not insulated with this issue. For most of history smaller players were like pawns in game than could befriend stronger once and be respected.
I'm sure independent Kurdistan (or whatever name you chose) is only a matter of when.

 

[Coolboygcp]

I don't understand that "gay" blaming of Russia by anglosaxons in general. RF don't let minorities impose its will on the majority, any bad here??? And we don't have feminism here too while our woman totally free since viking ages...

Every civilised country allows gays to have their own magazines, newspapers, websites, etc. Russia has a ban on "gay propaganda". I have never seen propaganda created by gay people (except Putin).

Russian women aren't totally free. If they were, they wouldn't have Pussy Riot. Do you not consider Pussy Riot to be feminists? Or do you consider them to be "terrorists" as your government portrays them?

 

[Coolboygcp]

Why did you lose respect for the older brother?

Dear Goga you are once again leaning to much out of the window and mixing too extremely emotions with real politics. All before the 21th century we Kurds were not "important" enough and have been betrayed by allot of countries in the West as well East.

I don't need to remind you how we were betrayed.

Real Politics is not a "I wish " game. Just because you want "balance" in power doesn't mean it will happen. No one said Russia will go down, it is economically strong.

In your "emotional rage" once again you throw with accusations around which will neither be beneficial to us nor change what has happened. If it wasn't Holland or Germany who sold the Chemical weapons, it would have been other countries. The production of Chemicals on itself is a crime but unfortunately this is what is still going on. You can't criticize one side while at the same time the other is doing the same. Syrian Chemical weapons are mostly made in cooperation with Soviet Union and Egypt.

However I agree with you on one point. US has been very ignorant the last year towards the Kurds, because 1. they saw the Kurdish support as granted. 2. Ally pressure (Turkey) 3. They still hold on their nonsensical idea that "the region would be more destabilized " (When was the Near East ever stable and how much can it actually be more unstable than it currently is).

Russia is a big help in Syrian Kurdistan but not just out of "sympathy" but because One of our main enemies (Al Qaida) is also the enemy of Assad and because Russia saw the Middle East changing and (contrary to US) reacted to it better by seeing how the Kurdish question is gaining more importance.

However Kurds in Iran (their own ally) Russia never lost nor will they lose a word.

Yet we need the support of the West as well the East

You react emotional and expect us Kurds to be isolated from Western and Eastern powers which is impossible and will turn us decades back.

Do you talk about other things? Is this all you think about, Kurds, Kurdistan, Turkey is evil, EU is evil, West is evil, etc.

If there ever will be a Kurdistan (which I doubt), Iranian Kurdistan would not be a part of it, that is delusional. Southeast Turkey will never be part of it either. I also doubt Syrian Kurdistan would be part of it.

This only leaves Iraqi Kurdistan, which is the only Kurdish region which has a chance of independence, only because Iraq is collapsing; and in the event if Iraqi Kurdish independence, they would probably not be able to keep it.

You seem to love to attack everyone on this thread. Even one of your own (Goga, a Kurd who wants Kurdish independence, and has similar ideologies as you) you fight with.

Are you hypertensive or something?

You should make another thread, featuring your crazy rants regarding The West's, the EU's, the UN's, and Turkey's plan to hurt and kill all Kurds. If you do that, then you won't derail this thread any further.