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Sclaviniae Enclave/Exclave and the stem Sloven

Milan

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Sclaviniae and the Slavic word "Sloven,Slovenin" are often interpreted as synonymous and that Latin Sclavus,Greek Sklabos are derived from the stem Sloven,Slovenin.First i will try to check by definition how synonymous they are;

The derived Greek term Sklavinia(i) (Ancient Greek: Σκλαβινίαι, Latin: Sclaviniae) was used for settlements (area, territory) which were initially out of Byzantine control and independent,inhabited by Slavic speaking groups,the Antes who in modern historiography are considered to be Slavs were a specific ethnicon who had a foedus status with the Byzantine Empire, and were probably located in Scythia Minor,they were called the "Antes"-against?

An enclave is any portion of a state that is entirely surrounded by the territory of a single other state.An exclave is a portion of a state geographically separated from the main part by surrounding alien territory. Many exclaves are also enclaves. Enclave is sometimes used improperly to denote a territory that is only partly surrounded by another state.Examples of enclaved countries include San Marino and Lesotho. Examples of exclaves include Nakhchivan and Campione d'Italia. Campione d'Italia is also an enclave.

The Slavic autonym is reconstructed in Proto-Slavic as *Slověninъ, plural *Slověne. The oldest documents written in Old Church Slavonic and dating from the 9th century attest Словѣне Slověne to describe the Slavs. Other early Slavic attestations include Old East Slavic Словѣнѣ Slověně for "an East Slavic group near Novgorod."
The Slavic autonym *Slověninъ is usually considered a derivation from slovo "word", originally denoting "people who speak (the same language)," i.e. people who understand each other, in contrast to the Slavic word denoting "foreign people" – němci, meaning "mumbling, murmuring people" (from Slavic *němъ – "mumbling, mute"). The latter word may be the derivation of words to denote German/Germanic people in many later Slavic languages.
The oldest written Slavic language Old Church Slavonic for the language self-name as словѣ́ньскъ ѩзꙑ́къ, slověnĭskŭ językŭ.

As we can see the two are not synonymous can we call them cognates?Florin Curta say that the "ethnic" word Sclavines is derivation from Sclaviniae and that no people call themselves by that name in ethnic sense moreover it was Byzantine term,first statement "We are Slavs i.e Sloveni" date from 12th century Russian chronicle,in my opinion Enclave/Exclave and Sclaviniae are much more synonymous if not the same.
In linguistics, cognates are words that have a common etymological origin.

Some of first Sclavinias we see in modern day Romania,Moldova and one of the first Slavic tribal unions in 581 was known as the Macedonian sclavinia made of different tribes which we even know by name Vajounites,Sagudates,Berzites etc
Etymological origin of the words Enclave/Exclave.
From French enclave, from Middle French enclave ‎(“enclave”), deverbal of Middle French enclaver ‎(“to inclose”), from Old French enclaver ‎(“to inclose, lock in”), from Vulgar Latin *inclāvāre ‎(“to lock in”), from in + clavis ‎(“key”) or clavus ‎(“nail, bolt”)
We can see that is ultimately related to the Latin word Clavus(key) in medieval Latin we see usage of the word Sclavus i.e Slavs
This word from Byzantines(Eastern Romans) entered western Europe(Western Roman empire) with pretty much same political meaning.


In the 15th century Bertrandon de la Broquière was a Burgundian spy and pilgrim to the Middle East in 1432–33 reflected on the lot of people in the Balkans saying I remember the great subordination under which the Turks hold the emperor in Constantinople..As i said earlier there are many christians who are forced to serve the Turk such as Greeks,Bulgarians,Macedonians,Albanians,Esclavianians,Rasians and Serbians.Here he clearly made distinction between Esclavianians and others just like Byzantines were doing earlier,as well we see that he call some people Esclavianians which in turn can derrive from Esclave already at Middle French language?
however my general opinion is that Sclaviniae and Enclave/Exclave are synonymous and have or had at some time same meaning or political interpretation,can they derrive from the same word namely Latin-Clavus?
 
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thanks
very possible:
yes, I think enclave/exclave (opposite meaning but based on the same etymon -clav- (key, lock, fr. clef, clé, clou) could be the origin of (s)sclavinian;
later, a popular (and false) etymology could have linked the derived terms to the diverse names from slav (*slav- << glory, greekcleos, celtic clew-/klew-/clu- to hear, to perceive) clod, klod : glorey - germ- associated meanings loud , laut , luid (hlûd*) -+slavic slovo word (speach) associated meanings(noise, voice, word, speech, renown, glory...
quickly said (I 'm too lazy tonight to go to search my old dictionaries=
 
Yes i agree on that,will post one quote of Theophylact Simocatta writing in the time of Heraclius (c. 630) about the late Emperor Maurice (582–602) from whom we have informations about the early Slavs which was maybe posted here already;

As for the Getae, that is to say the herds of Sclavenes, they were fiercly ravaging the regions of Thrace

So which one here is the "ethnic" term of the two?

Another quote that i found from him is;
These, therefore, encountered six hundred Sclavenes who were escorting a great haul of Romans, for they had ravaged Zaldapa, Aquis, and Scopi, and were herding back these unfortunates as plunder; a large number of wagons held the possessions they had looted. When the barbarians observed the Romans approaching, and were then likewise observed, they turned to the slaughter of the captives. Then the adult male captives from youth upwards were killed. Since the barbarians could not avoid an encounter, they collected the wagons and placed them round as a barricade, depositing the women and youth in the middle of the defence.The Romans drew near to the Getae (for this is the older name for the barbarians)

The Getae is name given to several Thracian tribes inhabiting the either side of lower Danube,that is in fact where we find the first Sclavinias.

The label Sclavene is perhaps derivation of Sclaviniae(Enclaves) how i believe to be translated, Sclavene is used when describing the people of the Sclaviniae(Enclaves) i am not profesional neither in English or Greek,Latin translations.Florin Curta has article about the problem will post him later.
 
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Sklaviniai and Ethnic Adjectives:A Clarification Florin Curta University Florida. USA Abstract:

It has been recently claimed that the first reference to Sklavinia as a territory inhabited primarily by Slavs is to be found in Theophanes Confessor. A particular passage in Theophylact Simocatta in which the word appears has been supposedly mistranslated. In reality, the passage in question contains a reference to Sklavinia at least 150 years older than the Chronographia of Theophanes.Key words: Theophylact Simocatta, Slavs, Sklavinia, Vita Willibaldi.
Having prepared for some time for the trip, Bishop Willibaldof Eichstätt finally departed in 722 for the Holy Land in the company of his father and brother. According to Hugeburc of Heidenheim, who wrote the bishop’s biography half a century later, Willibald embarked at Syracuse and “reached the city of Monemvasia,Morea (Peloponesse) in the land of Sclavinia (et inde navigantes, venerunt ultra mare Adria ad urbem Manafasiamin Slawinia terrae)” most likely in 723 (Vita Willibaldi 93; English translation byC. H. Talbot, from Noble and Head 151)1. Hugeburc’s use of the word Slawiniais the first instance in Latin of a specific name for the “land of the Slavs”2. In a somewhat different form (Sclavinia), the term appears in slightly later sources of the Carolingian age to refer to territories within the Empire, which were inhabited by Slavs (Bertels 160-161)3. Hugeburc could have hardly invented the word, which later entered the specialized language of the Carolingian chancery.If taking at face value her claim that she wrote the biography of Willibald “indictation from his own mouth” one would have to admit that Slawinia was the bishop’s word (Vita Willibaldi 86; English translation from Noble and Head143-144)4. He in turn may have learned it (or rather the original form Sclavinia)in Constantinople, during his sojourn in the City on his return trip from the Holy Land (Ronin 440). The term was certainly in use in Byzantium shortly after AD 800, as attested by the Latin translation of the letter Emperor MichaelII sent to Louis the Pious to justify his attachment to iconoclasm: “de Asiae et Europae partibus, Thraciae,Macedoniae, Thessaloniae, et circumiacentibus Sclaviniis” (Concilia 477)5.
In Greek, the term is employed many times in the Chronicle of Theophanes Confessor, which was finished in the early 810s (Theophanes Confessor 347,364, 430, and 486)6. Theophanes used both the singular and the plural forms of the word to refer to a territory against which the Byzantine emperors ConstansII, Justinian II, and Constantine V launched military expeditions. In at least one case, the Sklaviniai in question are located in Macedonia, while in another,the term is clearly employed for what seems to be a territory under imperial rule(Theophanes Confessor 430 and 486)7. In 810, Emperor Nicephorus I ordered Christians from all the provinces of the Empire to move into the Sklaviniai(Theophanes Confessor 486). This strongly suggests that in the early ninth century, shortly before Theophanes finished the manuscript of his chronicle,the meaning of the word Sklavinia has changed to refer to a territory (recently)conquered and incorporated into the Empire. That, in fact, is the meaning of the word in Ignatius the Deacon’s Life of Gregory of Dekapolis, written around 855.According to Ignatius, at some point during his long sojourn in Thessaloniki between 835 and 841, St. Gregory left the city together with a young disciple and went to a Sklavinia in the hinterland. He returned quickly after for seeing a great deal of bloodshed and unrest to be caused, for reasons that remained unknown, by the exarch of the Sklavinia (Makris 110 and 28-29, for the date of the composition)8. That leaders of Sklaviniai such as the exarch mentioned by Ignatius the Deacon were in the service of the emperor results from the fact that long before embarking on the mission to Moravia together with his younger brother Constantine, St. Methodius is said to have served as archon of a Sklavinia(Kronsteiner 48; Nasledova 87).However, the term Sklavinia was by no means an invention of the ninth century. Before Theophanes, the word appears in the text of the Miracles of St. Demetrius, in a homily of Book I concerning the 586 siege of Thessalonica by 100,000 Sclavenes and other barbarians under the orders of the Avar ruler.That ruler is said to have “gathered all the ferocious tribes of the Sklavinias(τὴν ἅπασαν τῶν Σκλαβηνιῶν θρησκείαν καὶ θηριώδη φυλήν) –for the whole nation took orders from him– mixed them with some other barbarians of different nations and ordered them to undertake an expedition against the God-protected city of Thessaloniki” (Lemerle 1979, 134)9. Archbishop John of Thessalonica wrote the homilies in Book I of the Miracles of St. Demetrius at some point during the first decade of Emperor Heraclius’ reign (Lemerle 1981, 44 and 80;Macrides 189; Whitby 1988, 116)10. His mention of Sklavinias would thus be two centuries older than Theophanes’. However, according to Paul Lemerle, the word Σκλαβηνιῶν in the tenth-century manuscript Vaticanus graecus 797 is a corrupted form of Σκλαβηνῶν, in which case the tribes in questions would be“of the Slavs”, and not “of the Sklavinias”11. There is in fact no other mention of Sklavinias in the Miracles of St. Demetrius. Moreover, Paul Lemerle’s ammendation makes much more sense in the light of Archbishop John’s concept of “nation”(ἔθνος) and “tribe” (φῦλον). To him, the Slavs, whom he always called Σκλαβίνοιor Σκλαβηνοί, but never Σκλάβοι, were an ἔθνος with many tribes, all of which were called in 586 to participate in the attack on Thessalonica12.Is then Evangelos Chrysos right when claiming that Sklavinia appears“in no Greek source of the sixth or the seventh century” (Chrysos 126)? To besure, his claim refers primarily to a passage in Theophylact Simocatta’s History concerning the military situation on the Lower Danube in the summer of 602,right before the revolt of Phocas:As summer was hastening on, word reached the emperor Maurice that the Chagan was cunningly providing a respite for warfare so that when the Roman troops were wandering at random, he might in a surprise move assault the vicinity of Byzantium. Therefore he ordered the general [Peter, the emperor’s brother] to leave Adrianopolis,and commended him to make the crossing of the Ister. And so Peter prepared to move camp against the horde of the Sklavinia (ὁ μἐν οὖν Πἑτρος κατἁ τῆς Σκλαυηνίας πληθύος στρατοπεδεύσθαι) (293; English translation from Whitby and Whitby 217).Chrysos, following Carl de Boor, the nineteenth-century editor of Theophylact’s History, took the word Σκλαυηνίας to be not a noun, but an adjective modifying the noun πληθύς (Carl de Boor, in Theophylact Simocatta 345;Chrysos 125-126). He therefore endorsed Mary and Michael Whitby’s translationof κατἁ τῆς Σκλαυηνίας πληθύος as “against the Sclavene horde” Besides relying on the authority of Carl de Boor, Chrysos’s main argument is that “the adjective sklavinios is known also from the Old Slavonic version of the Vita Methodii”, the second chapter of which contains the phrase knyazhenie slavensko. This, according to Chrysos (and Radoslav Katičić, who apparently translated the text to him into Byzantine Greek) must correspond to the Greek phrase Σκλαυηνία αρχή(Chrysos 126 n. 8). Leaving aside the unwarranted assumption that the Life of Methodius is not an original work in Old Church Slavonic, but a translation from Greek –an assumption not supported by any shred of evidence and contrary to everything that has so far been written on the Life of Methodius by generations of scholars (Dvornik, Ondruš, Petkanova, Birnbaum)– it is significant that Chrysos could not find a single text in Greek in support of his idea that the word Σκλαυηνία is an adjective13. For at a closer look, it appears that no such adjective exists in the (medieval) Greek language. When in need to refer to the quality of being “Slavic” medieval authors writing in Greek used instead σκλαυήνικος,σκλαβινικός, or σκλαβικός. For example, when referring to the boats the Slavs used to attack Thessalonica, the unknown author of Book II of the Miracles of St. Demetrius wrote of σκλαβικῶν νηῶν (Lemerle 1979, 177). According to the equally unknown author of the early seventh-century military treatise known as the Strategikon, in order to be efficient Roman units of light infantry needed to have short lances, like those of the Slavs, λαγχίδια Σκλαβινίσκια (Dennis andGamillscheg 422)14. Both Leo the Wise and Constantine Porphyrogenitus wrote of Slavic people as Σκλαβικὰ ἔθνη (Dennis 470; Moravcsik 138 and 140)15. In the late eleventh-century Life of St. Clement of Ochrid attributed to Theophylact of Ochrid, the letters invented by Constantine-Cyril to render the sounds of Old Church Slavonic are called σθλοβενικὰ γράμματα (Iliev 82 and 70-71, for authorship and date)16.None of those terms appear in Theophylact Simocatta’s work. As a matter of fact, there is no adjective derived from the noun Σκλαυηνοί/Σκλαβηνοί, which is commonly translated into English as “Slavs”17. Wherever Theophylact needed an adjective modifying a noun, he preferred to use Σκλαυηνοί/Σκλαβηνοί in attributive genitive. “Hordes of Slavs (πλήθη Σκλαυηνῶν)” appear many times in the History, but there is no Slavic horde (Theophylact Simocatta 52, 53, 226, 232,etc.). Moreover, the term πληθύς (or its equivalent πλῆθος, more often used in plural form) meaning “multitude” is commonly translated as “horde” when in the company of an attributive genitive referring to the Slavs, to barbarians, or to enemies, in general (Theophylact Simocatta 253, 271, and 293 for hordes of barbarians; Theophylact Simocatta 293 for hordes of enemies)18. Nowhere in Theophylact’s History is any noun for “multitude” accompanied by an adjective derived from an ethnic name. The horde against which Peter prepared to move camp were therefore not Slavic, but of (or in) the Sklavinia19.This interpretation is substantiated by the evidence of the textual context.According to Theophylact, Peter was about to cross the Danube, as the following paragraph explains that a scribo appointed by Emperor Maurice was to furnish ferry boats to the Roman army under Peter’s command, “so that they might cross the river (ὅπως τὸν ποταμὸν διανήξονται)” (Theophylact Simocatta 293; English translation from Whitby and Whitby 217). The attributive genitive of the plural noun for “barbarians” is also used to refer to the land across the river Danube as separate and different from the land of the Romans (Theophylact Simocatta295)20. In other words, the name of the land across the Danube from the Roman provinces in the Balkans is the “land of Slavs”, or Sklavinia. As Gennadii Litavrin has long noted, this appears to be a name on a par with such notions employed by ancient Greek or Roman ethnographers as Scythia, Germania, or Sarmatia, all of which had no clear definition in either territorial or political terms (Litavrin1984, 195). In any case, Theophylact’s Sklavinia has no political, but only territorial sense: the horde against which Peter was preparing to move was that of a particular territory inhabited by Slavs, and not an army of an organized polity established by Slavs in that region across the Danube.Despite Evangelos Chrysos’s claims to the contrary, therefore, Theophylact Simocatta is the first author to have used the term Sklavinia with the meaning“land of the Slavs”, and he did so more than a century before Hugeburc of Heidenheim and Theophanes Confessor. Theophylact finished his History inca. 630, for the last events mentioned in his work are Heraclius’ victory over Rhazates in 627, the death of Khusro II, and the conclusion of peace with Persia in the following year. He is often compared to George of Pisidia or the authorof the Chronicon Paschale, for having composed substantial parts of his narrative in the optimistic mood of the late 620s, after Heraclius’ triumph (Olajos 1981,417-424; Olajos 1981-1982, 41; Olajos 1988, 11; Whitby 1988, 39-40). It has also been suggested that, since his History focuses exclusively on the Balkans and the eastern front, Theophylact’s goal was to explain the events of 626 in the light of Emperor Maurice’s policies in the Balkans and the East (Curta 2001, 56).Beginning with Book VI of his work, he relied on what Hans Wilhelm Haussig once called the Feldzugs journal, a campaign diary written at some point after Phocas’ accession of 602 by a participant in Priscus’ and Peter’s campaigns against the Slavs and the Avars (Haussig 296; for Theophylact’s use of the campaign diary,see Curta 2001, 56-59). Some have even suggested that for the chapters VIII 5.5to VIII 7.7 narrating the events of 601 and 602, particularly Phocas’ revolt of November 602, Theophylact may have used reports of surviving participants,such as Godwin, general Peter’s second-in-command. Indeed, Godwin is the one who “crossed the river [Danube], destroyed hordes of enemies in the jaws of thes word, secured a large body of captives, and acquired great glory” (Theophylact Simocatta 217; see Olajos 1988, 152). Could then the use of Sklavinia at VIII5.10 be attributed to Godwin, Theophylact’s alleged source? In my opinion, the answer must be negative for a variety of reasons. First, this is the only instance of Sklavinia not only in the chapters believed to have been based on interviews with Godwin, but also in the entire work of Theophylact. Second, when in need to refer to the lands across the Danube in which the soldiers in Peter’s army were ordered to pass the winter of 602/603, Theophylact employed a periphrasis,ἐν ταῖς τῶν Σκλαυηνῶν χώραις (Theophylact Simocatta 293)21. Irrespective of the bombastic style of his narrative, Theophylact’s choice of a periphrasis at thispoint cannot be just as a way to avoid repetition of the word Sklavinia22.Why then did he use the word at VIII 5.10? An attentive examination of the entire passage covering the events of the summer of 602, up to the order of the emperor to his troops to spend the winter in the lands of the Slavs (VIII 5-8to VIII 6.1) shows that Theophylact was at pains describing three different movements of armies and peoples in relation to the river Danube, which he viewed as separating the Empire from the barbarians. On one hand, Peter’s troops under the command of Godwin crossed the river against the Slavs, taking large numbers of captives with which the Romans wanted to return to the Roman provinces inthe Balkans, but “Godwin for a time prevented them from doing this” (Whitby and Whitby 217). Meanwhile, the qagan of the Avars dispatched an army “to destroy the nation of the Antes, which was in fact allied to the Romans” (Whitby and Whitby 217). It remains unclear whether the Avar army moved along the left or the right bank of the river Danube. Given that Godwin and his troops were still north of the river, it is possible that the Avars moved along the southern bank, through what was theoretically Roman territory. That much results from the description of the third concomitant movement of people: “In the course oft hese very events, large numbers defected from the Avars and hastened to desert to the emperor” (Whitby and Whitby 217)23. Furthermore, the expedition of the Avars against the Antes is specifically attributed to the Chagan’s reaction to the“Roman incursions” (Whitby and Whitby 217)24. In other words, in response to the Roman attacks on the Slavs, the Avars decided to attack the traditional allies of the Romans farther to the east. The Chagan regarded the Slavs north of the Lower Danube as his subjects, even if he had previously agreed to treat the Danube “as intermedium (μεσίτης) between Romans and Avars” and to allow the Romans “to cross the river against the Sclavenes”25. From a Roman point of view, therefore, a distinction needed to be made between those barbarian lands which were under the direct rule of the Chagan, and the territory which, though theoretically under Avar rule (at least in the eyes of the Chagan), was effectively controlled by more or less independent Slavs. Both were on the other side of the Danube, in contrast to the “land of the Romans” to the south from that river.In the context of the account of the events of the summer of 602, Theophylact needed something to draw a sharp distinction between them. It was from the lands under the direct rule of the Chagan that those Avars came, who would later defect to the Romans. Conversely, it was against the territories controlled by independent Slavs that the Roman troops moved under the command of Godwin. “Hordes of barbarians were surging around the land on the opposite bank of the Ister (τὸ πλήθη βαρβάραων περικυμαίνειν τὴν χώραν τὴν ἀντίπεραςτοῦ Ἴστρου)” (Theophylact Simocatta 293: English translation from Whitby andWhitby 218). Godwin’s operations of 602, however, were directed only against one of those hordes, namely that from Sklavinia, “the territory of the Sclavenes”in which the Roman troops would soon be ordered to spend the winter.Theophylact Simocatta’s use of the word Sklavinia –the first such instance in the literature written in Greek– is nothing more than a narrative device, the role of which is to focus his audience’s attention upon a particular part of the barbarian lands north of the river Danube in the context of a paragraph covering the rather complicated events of the summer of 602. Instead of an attributive genitive, such as commonly used in his work to refer to the quality of being Slavic, Theophylact invented a name for the land of the Slavs derived from the very name he used for them in the History. The territorial meaning of the word was linked to, and in fact limited by the specific circumstances described in the paragraph in which it was used. Theophylact did not employ any other, similar names of barbarian territories or lands derived from ethnic names. There is no Avaria and no Tourkia in Theophylact’s History. That there is instead a Sklaviniais largely due to his peculiar style and narrative strategies. It may well be that Theophylact did not in fact invent the word, and that the term was already used occasionally at the time to refer loosely to the lands inhabited by Slavs.However, it is only in the early ninth century that the territorial meaning was firmly established, thus allowing a shift towards a political interpretation, as the“lands of the Slavs” began to move inside the Empire.
 
@ Milan

Greek sklabos-sklavos Σκλαβος is a compound word,
it comes from adding εις and κλωβος, means into a cage,
there are many works to describe slavery and working at ancient Greek,
so slavery as known today did not exist that time,
words for guarded or forced working etc were δουλος from δουλεια,
all δουλοι work to pay the ransom to the owner, but did have chains or cages,
if some were not obitient, or did not pay, or create trouble, they put them chains, and called δεσμιοι.
but i do not know where I read it, when a Greek travel at east of Lydia he found people inside cages, κλωβοι, people who live in cages are εις+κλωβος = σκλαβος
later that kind enter Greece especially at Roman times, but kept the word σκλαβος,
so I do not think that Sklabos with Sclaveni is the same, or has the same root,
 
Yetos@Thanks for the explanation,I know that in Greek the word for slave is δουλος-doulos,i am not talking about slavery here,the word Sklabos,Sclavus or the teritorial meaning Sclavinia, at the begining did not had connotation of a slave,the same word for a slave developed perhaps in Western Europe but derived from Sklabos,Sclavus.
As for the word "Sclaveni" that make confusion to you is just corruption in English of the same Greek-Sklabos,Latin-Sclavus.We do not find description of this activites in English but in Greek and Latin.
 
@ Milan
Greek sklabos-sklavos Σκλαβος is a compound word,
it comes from adding εις and κλωβος, means into a cage,

That's a paretymology. Linguists don't accpet it. Mediaval Greek σθλάβος (sthlavos) and σκλάβος (sklavos) comes from proto-Slavic *Slověninъ.
Origninally it was used as an ethnonym

@Milan
In Greek also since Mediaval times the ethnonym (Sklavos) was used also with the meaning "servant". It is used until today but only with the meaning "slave". And the word Σλάβος (Slavos) is being used with the meaning Slav.
 
That's a paretymology. Mediaval Greek σθλάβος (sthlavos) and σκλάβος (sklavos) comes from proto-Slavic *Slověninъ.
Origninally it was used as an ethnic name.
The problem is that this is not proven but "supposedly" as can be seen above what i have posted,nowhere it was used as ethnic name just later describing people that speak Slavic never in ethnic sense but in linguistic sense,the names of countries like Slovenia,Slovakia are new names,Slovene is attested much later then Sclavus,Sklabos and they are not cognate words in my opinion,why you would like to force that as an ethnic name? if one choose to use it as ethnic name he can of course,but there is no proves that was ever used as ethnic name of a country or empire but only by outsiders.
 
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That's a paretymology. Mediaval Greek σθλάβος (sthlavos) and σκλάβος (sklavos) comes from proto-Slavic *Slověninъ.
Origninally it was used as an ethnic name.

if remember correct it was Xenophon, at his book he describes fat children inside cages that had rich man at central minor Asia, for sexual amusement.
search it,
terminology Σκλαβος has nothing to do with Sclaveni,

κλωβος

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it has nothing to with Sclaveni,
 
I don't want to force it. It was an exonym, either way.
So I should rephrase it. It was used a an ethnic name by other groups of people. I don't know anything more than that. I just said that Yetos' etymology of the greek word is wrong or at least not accepted.
 


@Milan
In Greek also since Mediaval times the ethnonym (Sklavos) was used also with the meaning "servant". It is used until today but only with the meaning "slave". And the word Σλάβος (Slavos) is being used with the meaning Slav.
How can you call it "ethnonym"? do you know what ethnonym is firstly?
 
Yetos@Thanks for the explanation,I know that in Greek the word for slave is δουλος-doulos,i am not talking about slavery here,the word Sklabos,Sclavus or the teritorial meaning Sclavinia, at the begining did not had connotation of a slave,the same word for a slave developed perhaps in Western Europe but derived from Sklabos,Sclavus.
As for the word "Sclaveni" that make confusion to you is just corruption in English of the same Greek-Sklabos,Latin-Sclavus.We do not find description of this activites in English but in Greek and Latin.

but there is a posibility to be connected with Sumerian, like Goranje κορυφη and Kur,
sound -la- which also exist in Greek like word Λαος = people ,
mycenean Λαφαγετης linear la-wa-ge-ta modern Greek Λαο-ηγετης,
compare names like Menelaos ΑγησιΛαος etc
considering that Makedonian and Brygian used V/B insted of Φ that used southern Greek due to Pelasgian that could be la wa = (s)lave(ni) in more north or even to NW dialects of Greek
and it means people,
It has the same meaning with Celtic Teuta

so I do not know if Sclaveni ment 'slobodan' people or just people, nation
but it seems more logic to me to be an inner name
compare teuta - Teutons is inner name or an exonym?
same can be Slav-Sclaveni-Scolotoi, meaning people

το γλωσσικο μοριον Λα συνδεετε με την ενοια του ανδρικου πλυθησμου που εχει δικαιωμα λειας
ετσι η λεξη λαος αυτο καθ'αυτο δεν σημαινει ουτε πλυθησμος ουτε εθνος, αλλα τον ανδρικο πλυθησμο που εχει δικαιωμα/νομη στην λεια, γιαυτο και εχει δυναμη οταν διαμαρτυρετε.
ετσι η λεξη Αχιλλευς που ερμηνευετε λαθος σημερα σαν αχος λεοντος, σημαινει Βασιλευς λαων, δλδ πολυ μεγαλου στρατου, μυριων, δλδ αγα Αχαιοι αχα Σαξονες οπως και Σαχ σημαινει ηγετες/βασιλεις,
πριν απο την αλλαγη P-Q στην Ελληνικη γλωσσα ο Βασιλευς στην αρχεγονη Ελληνικη και στην Μυκηναικη ηταν qa-si-re(us) ετσι Αχιλλευς σημαινει qa-la-la(us) ηγετης/αγα/βασιλευς πολλων ανδρων/λαων
 
I don't want to force it. It was an exonym, either way.
So I should rephrase it. It was used a an ethnic name by other groups of people. I don't know anything more than that. I just said that Yetos' etymology of the greek word is wrong or at least not accepted.

oh, ok, lets see, so you accept that Greek Σκλαβος is same etymology with Sclaveni?
or that Σκλαβος has nothing to do with word κλωβος?
 
Yetos@ Thanks i just started this thread to see what is the people opinion or is there a posibility of those words above to have the same root.
 
Yetos@ Thanks i just started this thread to see what is the people opinion or is there a posibility of those words above to have the same root.

oups, sorry, but I believe that Sclaveni is conected with what we found at Mycenean as la-wa
 
oups, sorry, but I believe that Sclaveni is conected with what we found at Mycenean as la-wa
I think that was proposed PIE *(s)lawos, cognate to Ancient Greek λαός laós "population, people," which itself has no commonly accepted etymology,
but my question was different can Greek-Sklabos or Latin-Sclavus be connected with
κλείς *kleh₂u-, *kleh₂us ‎(“nail, pin, hook - instruments, of old use for locking doors”). Cognate with Latin clāvus ‎(“nail, pin”) and Old Church Slavonic ключь‎(ključĭ, “key”) and further with Enclave/Exclave which mean "to inclose"
my general question is whether Sklavinia and Enclave/Exclave could have same etymology based on this.

 
However the Eastern Roman empire(Byzantine) did not make big deal later of the term Sclavene,the population was mostly described by previous local names,for example description of battle of Trajan gates by John Geometres between Tsar Samuil and Romans;

Even if the sun would have come down, I would have never thought that the Moesian arrows were stronger than the Avzonian [Roman, Byzantine] spears.
... And when you, Phaethon [Sun], descend to the earth with your gold-shining chariot, tell the great soul of the Caesar: The Danube took the crown of Rome. The arrows of the Moesians broke the spears of the Avzonians.

The Serbs were dubbed as Tribalians from local names,the term Boulgaroi,Voulgaroi was also used for Bulgarians and also other local names.

Constantine Porphyrogennetos use it later in 10th century Sclavene,Sclavinia etc when describing the development what happened in the 7th century in the Balkans.
 
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@ Milan

I do not believe that Sclaveni is conected linguistic with virb κλειω close noun κλεις key etc,
but first you must decide if it is an inner name or an exonym,
 
Yes i agree on that,will post one quote of Theophylact Simocatta writing in the time of Heraclius (c. 630) about the late Emperor Maurice (582–602) from whom we have informations about the early Slavs which was maybe posted here already;

As for the Getae, that is to say the herds of Sclavenes, they were fiercly ravaging the regions of Thrace

So which one here is the "ethnic" term of the two?

Another quote that i found from him is;
These, therefore, encountered six hundred Sclavenes who were escorting a great haul of Romans, for they had ravaged Zaldapa, Aquis, and Scopi, and were herding back these unfortunates as plunder; a large number of wagons held the possessions they had looted. When the barbarians observed the Romans approaching, and were then likewise observed, they turned to the slaughter of the captives. Then the adult male captives from youth upwards were killed. Since the barbarians could not avoid an encounter, they collected the wagons and placed them round as a barricade, depositing the women and youth in the middle of the defence.The Romans drew near to the Getae (for this is the older name for the barbarians)

The Getae is name given to several Thracian tribes inhabiting the either side of lower Danube,that is in fact where we find the first Sclavinias.

The label Sclavene is perhaps derivation of Sclaviniae(Enclaves) how i believe to be translated, Sclavene is used when describing the people of the Sclaviniae(Enclaves) i am not profesional neither in English or Greek,Latin translations.Florin Curta has article about the problem will post him later.

What is the oldest source for Simocatta s usage of Sklaveni as another name for the Thracian (First People in South East Europe) Getae aka Goths, Gythones and today in Ukraine (the Old Russia) - Gutsuli? I do not see why the Getae would be called an enclave? On thier Northern side there was no Rumelia! Do you know the Indo - Euro Avestan GATHAS and Sanskrit GAYATE mean PRAISE (with singing) which in Sclavic languages could be translated using a root word SLAV, that is to glorify. The Romei have either added the k between s and l for easier pronunciation as they have done in other cases with Sclavic names or they have used the Greek cleos (gloria) as a root word. Strangely enough in the BuRGarian (BuLGarian/ BaLKarian/ BELgarian, BLuGarian) language there are the words got, gotin which means nice, cool, which a 1000 years ago would be expressed using the word SLAVEN.
 
Inner name or an exonym? You mean self name or given by others? How would we know that? What is the oldest source for Simocatta s usage of Sklaveni as another name for the Thracian (First People in South East Europe) Getae aka Goths, Gythones and today in Ukraine (the Old Russia) - Gutsuli? I do not see why the Getae would be called an enclave? On thier Northern side there was no Rumelia! Do you know the Indo - Euro Avestan GATHAS and Sanskrit GAYATE mean PRAISE (with singing) which in Sclavic languages could be translated using a root word SLAV, that is to glorify. The Romei (the Hellenized) have either added the k between s and l for easier pronunciation as they have done in other cases with Sclavic names, for example the BuRGarian leader Sthlavota(s) in the Epirus, I think written about by the Thessalian Cecaumenos in Strategicon, or they have used the Greek cleos (gloria) as a root word. Strangely enough in the BuRGarian (BuLGarian/ BaLKarian/ BELgarian, BLuGarian) language there are the words got, gotin which means nice, cool, which a 1000 years ago would be expressed using the word SLAVEN. Also the BuRGarian work cluki, kluki, klyuki meaning gossips is same as the English clue - info/ coming by word, that is slovo in S(c)lavic. Thus clue/cleos/gloria, slovo and slava have the same origin and similar meaning. The interesting thing about the Getae is they were aming the very first Christians. The ones who lived in MIsia which the 4th cent. Hieronymus puts as VVLGARIA ( Misia hec & VVLGARIA), that is Northern BuRGaria were under the leadership of Urfila (Wulfila???) who translated the Bible for them. Germanists try to make the Goths a Germanic tribe but they were in fact Getae, that is Thracian, that is part of the the future Sklaveno - BuRGars.
 
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