Positive for CTS8489 but Negative for CTS8862

[BMW]

:grin:..........

 

[BMW]

FTDNA's T project has my Patrick Walsh grouped with
Hoff, Anthonius b: ABT 1616 in Germany d: 1677 in Heddesdorf, Germany….(right bank of the Rhine).

"The west Germanic tribe of the Sicambri descended from the Cimmerians. The Sicambri were located along the right bank of the Rhine and appear about 55 BC."






https://www.houseofnames.com/Hait-family-crest/German
"The surname Hait was first found in Bavaria, where the name Heidt was anciently associated with the tribal conflicts of the area. They declared allegiances to many nobles and princes of early history, lending their influence in struggles for power and status within the region. They branched into many houses, and their contributions were sought by many leaders in their search for power."


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egem,_East_Flanders

Through the centuries Egem has had multiple names. In the oldest documents it was found to be named Heddeghem (1571).

Etymologically, Flemish toponyms ending with –gem refer to a Germanic compound of –haim, meaning ‘home’ or ‘residence’, and a derivative ending –inga. The first part of the name "Egem" is commonly assigned to the Germanic name of Haid, Hait or Heit. In its totality, the compound Haidingahaim meant ‘residence of the followers or tribal members of Frank (Franko) Haid’, degenerated into Heddeghem. The locality name belongs to the group of ingahemnames who are older than regular hemnames. Egem was founded in the early centuries of the Merovingian era (6th-7th century), and thus has an older origin than Bambrugge. Egem was probably a secluded homestead which was not too great, and was later absorbed by the rapidly faster developing Bambrugge.

(notice name similarity of Anthonius Hoff's Heddesdorf, Germany and the Haid / Hait / Heit homestead of Heddeghem in East_Flanders)







Wales:


"Nest also had children by the sheriff Hait

of Pembroke, a Fleming (William, who became lord of St. Clears)"



http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~walsh/nesta.html
*3rd LINE OF NESTA: 1 +Hait, Sheriff of Pembroke b: c.1070 2 William de Hay (FitzHait) b: c.1105 f: held St. Clare around the year 1130, campaigned with William and Maurice FitzGerald in Carmarthen in 1137. A footnote in the 13th century Welsh text "Brut y Tywysogyon" (The Chronicle of the Princes), compiled at the Welsh monastery of Strata Florida around 1300 alludes that William Hay 'Wallensis', son of Nesta and de Hay/Hait, was perhaps the father, or grandfather, of Philip and David (who went to Ireland).


Any thoughts, anyone?

 

[Salento]

If CTS8489 is above CTS8862, and you are Negative for CTS8862, but Anthonius is positive for it, I wouldn't theorize any close relation to him, until it is discovered when the mutation first occurred.

(It could have past 10 years, or 100 years, or 500 years, ...)

 

[BMW]

If CTS8489 is above CTS8862, and you are Negative for CTS8862, but Anthonius is positive for it, I wouldn't theorize any close relation to him, until it is discovered when the mutation first occurred.

(It could have past 10 years, or 100 years, or 500 years, ...)

Has the age of CTS8862 in this new configuration been determined?

Showing the similarity between Hoff's Heddesdorf and Heddeghem / Haidingahaim was an afterthought. The other info I showed were items I have been accruing over time and was not prompted by any findings concerning Anthonius Hoff which could just be an interesting coincidence.

My first thought was how could the name Hoff have any possible connection to Hedau, Hedaux, Hede, Hedde, Hedou, Hedin, Hedon, Hedman, Haid, Hait or Heit but I had to stop and remind myself that I am a Walsh....LOL.

I have been unable to view my FTDNA Big Y Block Tree ever since the update. Problem might be on my end but either way it has thrown a monkey wrench into the works. I'm also still patiently waiting for the YFull Tree to finish their analysis.

 

[torzio]

If CTS8489 is above CTS8862, and you are Negative for CTS8862, but Anthonius is positive for it, I wouldn't theorize any close relation to him, until it is discovered when the mutation first occurred.

(It could have past 10 years, or 100 years, or 500 years, ...)

I come back to my post number 77

 

[Salento]

I come back to my post number 77

I saw #77 earlier, but it’s a Paradox

if we follow that reasoning, Z19945 is above CTS8862, and we cannot be positive for CTS8862 too, but we are.

CTS8862 and CTS8489 are still equivalent on Ytree, and Z19945 is still at the same position as before,

maybe they will update the entire branch, and also move the Sardinian below with us.


@BMW I don’t see any dates from that end yet.

 

[torzio]

Has the age of CTS8862 in this new configuration been determined?

Showing the similarity between Hoff's Heddesdorf and Heddeghem / Haidingahaim was an afterthought. The other info I showed were items I have been accruing over time and was not prompted by any findings concerning Anthonius Hoff which could just be an interesting coincidence.

My first thought was how could the name Hoff have any possible connection to Hedau, Hedaux, Hede, Hedde, Hedou, Hedin, Hedon, Hedman, Haid, Hait or Heit but I had to stop and remind myself that I am a Walsh....LOL.

I have been unable to view my FTDNA Big Y Block Tree ever since the update. Problem might be on my end but either way it has thrown a monkey wrench into the works. I'm also still patiently waiting for the YFull Tree to finish their analysis.

antonius Hoff is one step from me..........I noted this in other T thread

 

[torzio]

I saw #77 earlier, but it’s a Paradox

if we follow that reasoning, Z19945 is above CTS8862, and we cannot be positive for CTS8862 too, but we are.

CTS8862 and CTS8489 are still equivalent on Ytree, and Z19945 is still at the same position as before,

maybe they will update the entire branch, and also move the Sardinian below with us.


@BMW I don’t see any dates from that end yet.

yfull has stopped its experiment and reverted back to what it was.....I will check on this Sardinian later

 

[BMW]

antonius Hoff is one step from me..........I noted this in other T thread

A number of sites state A. Hoff's origin was Heddesdorf....located in the administrative district Neuwied.
Großmaischeid is a municipality in the district of Neuwied.

"First settlements in Großmaischeid date back to the late Bronze Age (1550 - 1200 BC). The Roman border fortification 'Limes' was erected around 80AD in the vicinity of Großmaischeid. The town was first mentioned in an official document issued by pope Eugene III which dates back to 20 January 1148. Its name is most probably derived from 'Metsched's (Maischeid) place', referring to a medieval local nobleman."



Possible explanation of the origin of the name Metsched / Maischeid :

http://haydefamily.com/meaning-of-the-name/
A book called Teutonic Name-Systems applied to the Family Names of France, England and Germany [4] is less conclusive. It refers to Old German names ending in Heid or Hait (Modern German equivalent Heit, and English equivalent Hood) as being found in many ancient names, particularly among the West Franks in the 8th and 9th centuries, i.e. names such as Adalheid, meaning noble-hood. However when the name was used as a prefix then it becomes more difficult to interpret. The book summarised the linkages of the names as follows:
Simple Forms
Old German (8th century): Haito, Haido, Haida, Eid.
English: Height, Hayday, Ade, Adie.
Modern German: Haid, Heydt.
French: Aide.

 

[BMW]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Rhine
In the 4th century BCE, the area had come under the influence of Mediterranean civilizations

 

[torzio]

I saw #77 earlier, but it’s a Paradox

if we follow that reasoning, Z19945 is above CTS8862, and we cannot be positive for CTS8862 too, but we are.

CTS8862 and CTS8489 are still equivalent on Ytree, and Z19945 is still at the same position as before,

maybe they will update the entire branch, and also move the Sardinian below with us.


@BMW I don’t see any dates from that end yet.

I do not understand why we cannot be positive for both, z19945 just moves inbetween

 

[Salento]

I do not understand why we cannot be positive for both, z19945 just moves inbetween

To be positive for both, and if you move Z19945 on top of CTS8862, than CTS8862 would become our Final.

 

[torzio]

To be positive for both, and if you move Z19945 on top of CTS8862, than CTS8862 would become our Final.

Not the case as I think this tree
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_T-L206_(Y-DNA)#/media/File:Phylogenetic_T-M184_tree.png

is the correct tree......with z19945 splitting off

 

[Salento]

Not the case as I think this tree
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_T-L206_(Y-DNA)#/media/File:Phylogenetic_T-M184_tree.png

is the correct tree......with z19945 splitting off

Where's CTS8862 in that tree? (before we thought that equated to CTS8489).

You said that it should be below Z19945.

It shows that Z19945 Split in 2 Branches, the CTS1848 (we’re Negative, so CTS8862 can’t be under it), and another, is it that one?

if that’s the case, all CTS1848 cannot be positive for CTS8862.

the Point is, that for any combination to work, must have Z19945 and CTS8862 because we are positive for both.

for now, the FTDNA tree makes more sense than the Yfull tree, maybe they’ll move the Sardinia below to Z19945.

Also the FTDNA tree settles @BMW’s issue.

 

[Salento]

FTDNA rearranged our branch a few days ago.

Maybe Yfull and others will do same.

 

[torzio]

FTDNA rearranged our branch a few days ago.

Maybe Yfull and others will do same.

In the T project ?

 

[Salento]

In the T project ?

no, FTDNA url main site, and I go to the Y DNA Haplotree,
I get there by clicking the “Haplotree & SNPs” tab located under the Y-DNA Section in the Main Page.

(I did a few Y tests with FTDNA, so I Have access to it)

this below is a part of our updated branch by FTDNA:

 

[torzio]

no, FTDNA url main site, and I go to the Y DNA Haplotree,
I get there by clicking the “Haplotree & SNPs” tab located under the Y-DNA Section in the Main Page.

(I did a few Y tests with FTDNA, so I Have access to it)

this below is a part of our updated branch by FTDNA:

I do not get what you get
even though I have done the 500 and 700 tests , it's still shows I need to test for cts1848....even though both 500 and 700 in individual snp tests for me says negative for cts1848.....there might be a glitch in the tree for me somewhere

even yfull and sequence says I am negative for cts1848

 

[BMW]

The Phylogenetic T-M184 tree would appear to need reworking, as well.
A shame.....would be akin to redoing the Mona Lisa, imho.

I still think my branch would need to go to Wallonia - Flanders, though.

 

[torzio]

The Phylogenetic T-M184 tree would appear to need reworking, as well.
A shame.....would be akin to redoing the Mona Lisa, imho.

I still think my branch would need to go to Wallonia - Flanders, though.

speak to mr Bernot via email....he is Walloon, he runs 3 accounts