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Phenotypes of the Greeks

George Stephanopoulos's father was born in the Ηλια (Elia) area of Peloponnese. The -poulos ending usually signifies Peloponnesian descent and means son of, so Stephanopoulos means son of Stephanos (Stephen). So his name would translate into Stephenson :).
 
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Angela said:
She looks quite different from the "Pontic" Greeks in this video, much more broad faced and less gracile, but then I'm no expert on Greek regional differences.
Click to expand...


Pontics do have these broad-faced types, as well, I'd say it's probably half and half, from my experience, because some overlap with South Caucasians from some specific areas (Kars, for example, Rize, and other places). Still, I'd say the most broad-faced types come from Macedonia and Thrace, with their substantial Bulgarian, and even Tatar/Pecheneg (Thrace) influence.

Here's a video of 2 young Eastern Thracian lasses, you can see the one the left, being extremely beautiful, has visible slanting in her eyes, a common trait in some Thrace villages.


 
bigsnake49 said:
George Stephanopoulos's father was born in the Ηλια (Elia) area of Peloponnese. The -poulos ending usually signify Peloponnesian descent and means son of, so Stephanopoulos means son of Stephanos (Stephen). So his name would translate into Stephenson :).
Click to expand...

Well, there you go; when I looked up the place it turned up in far eastern Thrace! :) Never trust the internet. Or maybe it's my sense of Greek geography.

Unless this is also wrong, I think I remember he said he was E-V13.
 
Angela said:
Well, there you go; when I looked up the place it turned up in far eastern Thrace! :) Never trust the internet. Or maybe it's my sense of Greek geography.

Unless this is also wrong, I think I remember he said he was E-V13.
Click to expand...

I looked up his father who was a priest in the Archdiocese rolls. George BTW was a classmate of my brother-in law in Pepper Pike, OH.
 
Bekas said:
Pontics do have these broad-faced types, as well, I'd say it's probably half and half, from my experience, because some overlap with South Caucasians from some specific areas (Kars, for example, Rize, and other places). Still, I'd say the most broad-faced types come from Macedonia and Thrace, with their substantial Bulgarian, and even Tatar/Pecheneg (Thrace) influence.

Here's a video of 2 young Eastern Thracian lasses, you can see the one the left, being extremely beautiful, has visible slanting in her eyes, a common trait in some Thrace villages.


Click to expand...

She's very beautiful indeed. Quite different from the other singer in terms of bone structure, having a very "soft" face, and a longer one as well, I think, and without the square jaw.

Not that those stronger boned faces can't be beautiful. Beauty comes in many variations, imo. Who could be more beautiful than Irene Papas in her prime?
irene_papas_copertina_tempo_1953.jpg


For all she thought she wasn't beautiful, I loved the way Maria Callas looked, even as she got older. Talk about spectacular bone structure.

bc7710d575955f7a8457de5ad7ab74ba.jpg


callas.jpg
 
Bekas said:
Pontics do have these broad-faced types, as well, I'd say it's probably half and half, from my experience, because some overlap with South Caucasians from some specific areas (Kars, for example, Rize, and other places). Still, I'd say the most broad-faced types come from Macedonia and Thrace, with their substantial Bulgarian, and even Tatar/Pecheneg (Thrace) influence.

Here's a video of 2 young Eastern Thracian lasses, you can see the one the left, being extremely beautiful, has visible slanting in her eyes, a common trait in some Thrace villages.


Click to expand...

Bekas, how do you know their family comes from Eastern Thrace? If you know their grandparents or great grandparents and the name of the village or town their ancestors came from I could look them up. The ending of their last name is not typical of Eastern Thrace transplants. Maybe they come from Eastern Rumelia?
 
Angela they are sisters :lol2:.
 
bigsnake49 said:
Angela they are sisters :lol2:.
Click to expand...

And? I look almost nothing like my brother. How is that pertinent to the comparison of features?

That's if you mean she is the sister of Pela Nikolaidou, to whom I was drawing a comparison.
 
Angela said:
And? I look almost nothing like my brother. How is that pertinent to the comparison of features?

That's if you mean she is the sister of Pela Nikolaidou, to whom I was drawing a comparison.
Click to expand...

Just letting you know :). The oldest sister of mine and I look nothing like our younger sister. We are dark haired and dark eyed and she is blond, blue-grey eyed. She looks like my father who looked nothing like his sister.
 
Greeks vary in physiogonomy from Alpine, Alpine Med, Atlanto Med, Dinarid, in mainland Greece. You may see some darker varieties in Mani which has a genetic connection to Crete. The islands probably vary considerably with the above phenotypes represented with increasing East Med characteristics. The Greeks of Anatolia and/or the Caucasus regions can really vary in phenotype but based on genetic composition wouldn't necessarily diverge from Armenians and/or Georgians.
 
Eastern Mediterranean is basically another word for Aegean Islander-to-Western Anatolia coast, or just simply the Aegean. It is more specific and accurate to call it as such, since people in other parts of the Eastern Mediterranean are radically different from them. Egyptians and other Levantines are different from the Aegean Islands, because they have a large amount of Iberomaurusian, as well as relatively large SSA component. In fact, I recall modern Near easterners must be modeled with Sidon_BA, and are not appropriately modeled with Ancient Near Easterners, since they have been transformed. The genetic profile of Aegean Islanders is similar to Anatolia_BA.


Crete, Rhodes, Kos, and Icaria are so-called C5 Eastern Mediterranean (Aegean, if you will), rather than a place just receiving the input.


This ancestry has had far reaching impact, beyond Italy and Greece, and basically touched much of the rest of Europe. The Italian samples shown below are not C5-Eastern Mediterranean (AEGEANS!) but did receive geneflow.


My money is on the Greek Colonies, for when this ancestry first arrived in South Italy.

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]C5_Late_Antiquity_Eastern_Mediterranean:R34_Mausole_di_Augusto[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #7BFF00, align: right"]3.63035811[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Rhodes[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]C5_Late_Antiquity_Eastern_Mediterranean:R32_Mausole_di_Augusto[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #D3FF00, align: right"]6.19655549[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Sicily[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]C5_Late_Antiquity_Eastern_Mediterranean:R30_Mausole_di_Augusto[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #87FF00, align: right"]3.96643417[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Calabria[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]C5_Late_Antiquity_Eastern_Mediterranean:R122_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #64FF00, align: right"]2.95387881[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Campania[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]C5_Iron_Age_Eastern_Mediterranean:R850_(Latini)_Ardea[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #64FF00, align: right"]2.94292372[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Kos[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R81_Viale_Rossini_Necropolis[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #99FF00, align: right"]4.50543006[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Rhodes[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R78_Viale_Rossini_Necropolis[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #D3FF00, align: right"]6.19707996[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Cappadocia[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R72_ANAS[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #8DFF00, align: right"]4.14963854[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Cypriot[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R71_ANAS[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFB600, align: right"]9.65810023[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Cappadocia[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R69_ANAS[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #B0FF00, align: right"]5.18924850[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Icaria[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R66_ANAS[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #9FFF00, align: right"]4.68466648[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Rhodes[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R50_Centocelle_Necropolis[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #9FFF00, align: right"]4.67814066[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Calabria[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R45_Isola_Sacra_Necropolis[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #78FF00, align: right"]3.53954799[/TD]
[TD]Morocco_Jew[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R44_Isola_Sacra_Necropolis[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFC800, align: right"]9.11243656[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Icaria[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R43_Isola_Sacra_Necropolis[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFD400, align: right"]8.76342399[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Cypriot[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R40_Isola_Sacra_Necropolis[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #C6FF00, align: right"]5.81309728[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Rhodes[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R39_Isola_Sacra_Necropolis[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #74FF00, align: right"]3.41058646[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Rhodes[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R1548_Monterotondo[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #53FF00, align: right"]2.43474845[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Kos[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R1545_Necropolis_of_Monte_Agnese[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #6AFF00, align: right"]3.10964628[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Rhodes[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R1543_Necropolis_of_Monte_Agnese[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #98FF00, align: right"]4.47641598[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Kos[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R134_Marcellino_&_Pietro[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #7DFF00, align: right"]3.67247873[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Rhodes[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R133_Marcellino_&_Pietro[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #7FFF00, align: right"]3.73029489[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Rhodes[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R130_Marcellino_&_Pietro[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #A2FF00, align: right"]4.76692773[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Cypriot[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R128_Casale_del_Dolce[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #8DFF00, align: right"]4.15545425[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Cappadocia[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R123_Casale_del_Dolce[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #70FF00, align: right"]3.29807520[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Rhodes[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R115_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #66FF00, align: right"]2.99045147[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Kos[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R114_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #4CFF00, align: right"]2.23273375[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Crete[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
matadworf said:
Greeks vary in physiogonomy from Alpine, Alpine Med, Atlanto Med, Dinarid, in mainland Greece. You may see some darker varieties in Mani which has a genetic connection to Crete. The islands probably vary considerably with the above phenotypes represented with increasing East Med characteristics. The Greeks of Anatolia and/or the Caucasus regions can really vary in phenotype but based on genetic composition wouldn't necessarily diverge from Armenians and/or Georgians.
Click to expand...

Atlanto-Meds are probably rare as hen's teeth in mainland Greece. Let's not exaggerate.

The people of Mani are closer to the ancient Greeks, if that's what you mean.

I'm warning you; you start with theapricity type b.s. here and there will be consequences.
 
bigsnake49 said:
Bekas, how do you know their family comes from Eastern Thrace? If you know their grandparents or great grandparents and the name of the village or town their ancestors came from I could look them up. The ending of their last name is not typical of Eastern Thrace transplants. Maybe they come from Eastern Rumelia?
Click to expand...


They are from Soufli, and originally from Adrianopolis/Edirne, Eastern Thrace has these Tatar/Pecheneg leaning types. And the recent transplants you are referring to are the Albanophones, like your own villages; Christianised Pechenegs and Cumans/Kip-Chaks have settled in (Eastern) Thrace (and Macedonia) since the 11th century A.D.

Eastern Rumelia is more Bulgarian (and/or Armenian) leaning in its ethnography and genetics (from what I've seen so far).
 
Angela said:
You obviously don't know this forum. "Guess the Ethnicity" threads here have always been light hearted, un-judgemental fun. We don't do "anthropology classifications" here, much less ones using made up anthro-babble internet terms. Anyone who tries it will be apprised of that immediately.

I don't tolerate that sort of thing, nor the t-rolling of other ethnic groups, or calling "any" group by terms which are ethnic or racial slurs.

One of these "new" members got the news first hand yesterday. I'm quite happy to deal with any others who have the same sort of ideas.

In fact, if this thread degenerates into a "forum" for those kinds of arguments and disputes I'll just close it, so everybody is on notice.
Click to expand...


I've been "enrolled" here for quite some time but would lurk very infrequently. Lately I've been coming around more. I like the content and will endeavor to maintain civility.
 
bigsnake49 said:
Bekas, how do you know their family comes from Eastern Thrace? If you know their grandparents or great grandparents and the name of the village or town their ancestors came from I could look them up. The ending of their last name is not typical of Eastern Thrace transplants. Maybe they come from Eastern Rumelia?
Click to expand...

My first impression was "Islanders."
 
Angela said:
Atlanto-Meds are probably rare as hen's teeth in mainland Greece. Let's not exaggerate.

The people of Mani are closer to the ancient Greeks, if that's what you mean.

I'm warning you; you start with theapricity type b.s. here and there will be consequences.
Click to expand...


Angela, you and Jovialis are absolutely right in your sentiments.

Greek people, as a whole, look neither like the people on the Atlantic coastline nor like the people in the Alps. I mean how could they?

They have their own streamlined look with influences that make them have common characteristics with the other people of the Eastern Med., the Near East and the Balkan region.


Here are some more everyday Thracians and Greek Gagauzes:



 
Bekas said:
They are from Soufli, and originally from Adrianopolis/Edirne, Eastern Thrace has these Tatar/Pecheneg leaning types. And the recent transplants you are referring to are the Albanophones, like your own villages; Christianised Pechenegs and Cumans/Kip-Chaks have settled in (Eastern) Thrace (and Macedonia) since the 11th century A.D.

Eastern Rumelia is more Bulgarian (and/or Armenian) leaning in its ethnography and genetics (from what I've seen so far).
Click to expand...

I thought a small contingent of Pechenegs settled in Almopia in Greek Macedonia as per wikipedia:
"Alexios I recruited the defeated Pechenegs, whom he settled in the district of Moglena (today in Macedonia) into a tagma "of the Moglena Pechenegs".[42] Attacked again in 1094 by the Cumans, many Pechenegs were slain or absorbed. The Byzantines defeated the Pechenegs again at the Battle of Beroia in 1122, on the territory of modern-day Bulgaria. For some time, significant communities of Pechenegs still remained in the Kingdom of Hungary. With time the Balkan Pechenegs lost their national identity and became fully assimilated, mostly with Magyars and Bulgarians."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pechenegs

Also from Wikipedia:

Cumans invaded Thrace where they pillaged towns that had recently come under the control of the Nicaean Empire. This continued until 1242 when Nicaean emperor John III Doukas Vatatzes, in response to the situation, won their favour with "gifts and diplomacy". Thereafter he succeeded in settling most of them in Anatolia throughout the Meander valley and the region east of Philadelphia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumans#Settlement_on_the_Hungarian_plain

As far as the Tatars are concerned, they were Muslim and settled mainly in the Dobruja area of Bulgaria.

That is not today that there was not an influx of foreign blood during the Roman, Byzantine and Ottoman Empires and even before that the Celts. I am more interested in recent (16th, 17th, 18th century) migrations into the area from the Peloponnese and mainland Greece.
 
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