Religion Modern paganism

[Tsuyoiko]

Lol turns out paganisum is the fastest growing religion in britan, how weird is that!

Hi lv426! I don't think it's weird at all that paganism is the fastest growing religion in Britain. Basically, pagans worship nature, and so it is natural that paganism would become more common now that many people are more concerned about how we affect the environment. Also, I think that paganism has more rational appeal than many religions, because you worship something you can see, i.e. nature, rather than how most religions worship a god they cannot see. Also, I can see many parallels between paganism and shinto.

 

[lv426]

Actually yeah I was thinking that, it does seem fairly similar to shinto! I was just suprised when I saw that on the news, "what, wow cool lol"! Although the people they showed at stone henge looked a little strange.
Also I think the imeadiat picture that comes forth is 'the wicker man', but I dont think its likely that modern pagens are gonna start burining people in big straw men

Pagens dont belive in god, but they do belive in spirits e.g. everyone has one. I guess it makes more sence in the end, lol anyway...

 

[bossel]

Basically, pagans worship nature, and so it is natural that paganism would become more common now that many people are more concerned about how we affect the environment.

Perhaps you mean Neo-Paganism? Paganism in & of itself does not necessarily worship nature or natural entities. Shinto is essentially pagan, I think.

 

[Tsuyoiko]

Perhaps you mean Neo-Paganism? Paganism in & of itself does not necessarily worship nature or natural entities. Shinto is essentially pagan, I think.

Well, lv426 was talking about converts to paganism in Britain today. Most of those are what you would call 'neo-pagan', but most would just use the term 'pagan', I think. I would argue that classical paganism, at least in origin, was nature-based. Most of the (original) gods represent some force in nature. If you know about any pagan religions that have no nature worship I would be interested to hear about them, because I had assumed that pagan religion always had some connection to nature.

 

[Mycernius]

Pagan is the name usually given to non Judeo-Christian religions ie: Hinduism, Buddhism, Shinto. In other words, if your not a Muslim, Christian or a Jew then you are Pagan or a Heathen.

 

[bossel]

If you know about any pagan religions that have no nature worship I would be interested to hear about them, because I had assumed that pagan religion always had some connection to nature.

Well, you could say that even the Christian god represents nature: he's everything (or at least in everything: omnipresent).

What I understand as paganism is what Mycernius said (which is also the traditional interpretation, AFAIK), although I'd say it could also refer to non-monotheistic religions in general.

I don't know of any religion that is completely removed from nature, perhaps some cargo-cult, but even they probably worship some spirits or gods which are somehow connected to nature. There are numerous (pagan) religions which do not worship nature as such, but gods that might represent or originally may have represented some natural force/entity.

 

[Tsuyoiko]

I found this link Definitions of Paganism. It looks like pagan has lots of different meanings. I think lv426 and I were talking about Pagans (with a capital 'P'), i.e. modern nature-worshipers, rather than pagans, which has a much broader definition.

 

[Maciamo]

Perhaps you mean Neo-Paganism? Paganism in & of itself does not necessarily worship nature or natural entities. Shinto is essentially pagan, I think.

I agree with paganism not necessarily worshipping nature. Greco-Roman religion is probably the best example, as many gods had intellectual/moral/cultural attributes (arts, poetry, love, memory, strategy, communication...) rather than natural ones. (What other religion had a goddess of memory but the Greek one ?)

But Shinto does mainly worship nature : trees, waterfalls, rocks, etc. Even the ultimate goddess (Amaterasu) is the Sun goddess, another strong natural symbol. The only exceptions are the emperors that have become gods, like Hachiman, the god of war and marriage (strange combination, btw).

 

[Maciamo]

Tsuyoiko, I am trying to determine what is the pagan religion you are referring to. I would see it as a form of pantheism, i.e. spiritual communion with nature, but mostly an atheistic one. (correct me if I am wrong)

I doubt that "Britain's fastest growing religion" is related to polytheist paganism of the Antiquity. I am yet to meet someone who sincerely believes in a pantheon of gods such as Zeus, Athena, Apollo, etc. Many people might be interested in learning about them, but who believes in them nowadays ?

Likewise, I also doubt that neo-paganism is a form of animism, as I can't imagine many modern Brits believing in the "spirits of nature" (e.g. considering a stone or a tree as a kind of god), and especially evil spirits. Evil spirits, which are part and parcel of animist religions, were invented by primitive societies to explain why diseases struck some people or other natural phenomenon that can now be explained by science. That is partly why the Japanese really see modern Shinto as just old traditions that they occasionally follow, but do not believe in Shinto deities.

 

[Tsuyoiko]

I think in Britain today there are as many forms of Paganism as there are Pagans - I think a large part of its appeal is that it's very individual and people can tailor it to their own needs. But they all have in common:
• Respect and understanding of Nature and the cycles of life and death - such as the seasons
• A simple, positive and libertarian moral code, e.g. Do as you will, but harm none
• Acknowledgment of both the female and male aspects of Nature - usually manifested as worship of multiple deities
As you say Maciamo, I don't think it is incompatible with atheism. For my own part, I wouldn't say "I am a Pagan", as I don't believe in labelling myself, but the rituals that I like to use to express my respect for Nature are Pagan in origin. And I don't believe in any deities, although I might use a deity as representative of some aspect of Nature.

 

[Mars Man]

:note: Interesting and informative stuff. I can't really add anything here, but am just taking in the information. I'm of course familiar with the general definition of being non-Christian/Jew, but that's about it. I'll drop in and check it out from time to time.

 

[Kinsao]

When I read of how Tsuyoiko describes Paganism, I think about Wicca, which is fast growing as a religion in the UK. I guess it is kind of pantheistic in the emphasis on the respect for nature although more on the polytheistic side in consideration of the god and goddess... *is too tired and confused to contribute more right now*

 

[Tsuyoiko]

I think Wicca is probably the most common form of Paganism in Britain. All of my Pagan friends are Wiccans.

 

[nestowa]

Although Wicca may be the most common form of Paganism, it is not the only one. When someone asks me, I just say I practice the Old Ways. What I practice is old. It has some aspects that the Neo-Pagans follow, but it is the way my ancestors have believed for many generations. There are some Asatru that would not consider their religion or way of belief was "neo" and some get offended by the use of the term "neo." Paganism certainly is not Atheism. If I remember, the Neo Pagan movement is really only about 100 years old at the most.

 

[Maciamo]

I think Wicca is probably the most common form of Paganism in Britain. All of my Pagan friends are Wiccans.

But isn't Wicca based on the old Norse shamanism (from which the word wicca is derived), one of which principal ritual was human sacrifices ? Do Wiccan also practice human sacrifices ? If not, why have they chosen this name ?

I also have a question about the Wiccan Rede, if you know about it. I basically agree with the moral principle "if it harms no one, do as you will", but why does it have to be written in 16th century "Shakespearian" English ("An it harm none, do as thou wilt") ? Why is the word "rede" (from Middle English, which existed between the late 11th and late 15th centuries) used ? I mean, isn't it a anachronism to use a language that reminds of Britain's most staunchely Christian period (late Middle Ages and Renaissance). Thye logically should use Old English if they want to show the pagan connection. But Old English is not unintelligible to modern ears that I suppose it is the reason they chose Middle English. So why not just use modern English ? If they just use that to sound "traditional", it's just lame.

 

[nurizeko]

A silly interuption to your discussion, but neo-paganism, whatever it is, isnt suprising if its the fastest growing, i find myself sometimes looking up at the sky at night and a few stars will be out....i know their just huge burning balls of glowing gas billions of billions of miles away but...for some reason it makes more sense to talk to them and ask them for help when lifes a bit rough then praying to a god i cant see or feel.

Ontop of that, i find a natural enviroment, tree's grass just out in the country, feeling the breeze and what-not, it seems to calm the soul much more then sitting in a stuffy old church humming and praying.


So i guess i can see the appeal of other religions then the main ones ussually on offer, and in this day and age where people arent so ready to believe in a single god they cant see or hear, and where science makes the existance of god a constant question one must try to awnser himself, i can see how many folk who need a spirituality in their life can turn to the natural world for it.


On a less religious note, i always wondered what the world would be like if gaul, briton, the celtic nations had kept their culture and religion and society and everythnig to the modern day, just to see how our native cultures would hav adapted, granted the romans advanced civilization a good little bit, but europe probably lost out on its native cultures in the process.

Bleh, i just like the hisotrical what-if's

 

[Tsuyoiko]

But isn't Wicca based on the old Norse shamanism

As I understand it that is only one of many influences on modern Wicca. This site seems to give a pretty good overview of the origins of the religion.

Do Wiccan also practice human sacrifices ? If not, why have they chosen this name ?

No Wiccan I know practices human sacrifice. They usually sacrifice flowers, although I think they would use the word 'offering'.

I also have a question about the Wiccan Rede, if you know about it. I basically agree with the moral principle "if it harms no one, do as you will", but why does it have to be written in 16th century "Shakespearian" English ("An it harm none, do as thou wilt") ? ... If they just use that to sound "traditional", it's just lame.

I agree, it's lame when worded that way, but not all Wiccans use that wording. I think it's just a misguided attempt to be poetic by someone in the first half of the twentieth century. But it's certainly a principle I live by.

What is the appeal of Wicca for so many people? I think the moral principle is attractive to many, as it gives us freedom to act, but entails our total responsibility for those actions. For the Wiccans I know, the escape from reality it provides is another attraction. They are for the most part awkward teenagers who don't fit into the 'popular' groups, and who find their normal routines uninspiring. The mystery of the Wiccan rituals makes them feel that there is something better than the monotony of daily life. I can see the appeal myself, and occasionally half-heartedly take part in these rituals as I get a sort of aesthetic pleasure from them - the house looks pretty lit up with fairy lights and candles, and it's fun to collect feathers and conkers and acorns to decorate the hearth. Thirdly, there is an intellectual kick too, believe it or not. That was what first got the kids I know interested in it - it was fun for them to learn about all those gods and goddesses and rituals for themselves, as it's not something they were taught in school.

 

[Rin Daemoko]

I do not consider myself pagan. I do pratice Witchcraft and Chaos Magic, but I don't really have a religious side. I do have a spiritual side, though, but that's delightfully complicated and involves science! </geek>

On Witchvox recently there was an article posted in which the author could not make a distinction between "Wicca" and "Witchcraft" so save her life. Things like "Witchcraft is a religion..." would be repeated over and over, and it drove me crazy!

So I left a comment in there about how frustrating it is to see that in the mainstream. People who think that all Witches are Wiccan - mind you, they have good reason to think so, because the authors who are turning out all of the popular books on Wicca can't seem to tell the difference, either. ?n???B

 

[Tsuyoiko]

I'm not clear on the difference either - perhaps you could enlighten us?

 

[Kaminari]

But isn't Wicca based on the old Norse shamanism (from which the word wicca is derived), one of which principal ritual was human sacrifices ? Do Wiccan also practice human sacrifices ? If not, why have they chosen this name ?

I also have a question about the Wiccan Rede, if you know about it. I basically agree with the moral principle "if it harms no one, do as you will", but why does it have to be written in 16th century "Shakespearian" English ("An it harm none, do as thou wilt") ? Why is the word "rede" (from Middle English, which existed between the late 11th and late 15th centuries) used ? I mean, isn't it a anachronism to use a language that reminds of Britain's most staunchely Christian period (late Middle Ages and Renaissance). Thye logically should use Old English if they want to show the pagan connection. But Old English is not unintelligible to modern ears that I suppose it is the reason they chose Middle English. So why not just use modern English ? If they just use that to sound "traditional", it's just lame.

First rule of the Wiccan Rede "An it harm none, do what thou wilt," As opposed to "Do what thou wilt; this shall be the whole of the law." The use of middle English for the Wiccan Rede is in part a counter to the traditional Satanist's credo. The use of thou and such terms, though, is not confined to Middle English - those terms are still part of various dialects in England itself.

Wicca is an Earth religion, as opposed to certain other Pagan religions which can be typified as wind, air, water, and fire. Air religions attempt to achieve a heightened spiritual awareness (for want of a better term) through the use of drugs, as opposed to the FAIRLY common Wiccan practice of using sex for the same ends. Fire religions tend to be rather violently monotheistic. Wicca is derived for the most part from Druidic practice and the gods venerated tend to be drawn from the less bloody minded pantheons, rather than those of Babylonian, Egyptian and Norse traditions, but individual covens vary broadly in terms of precisely which gods and pantheons. While Wiccans have been accused of engaging in blood sacrifice, any coven that did so would not be acknowledged - even if it was (say) chicken blood - as Wiccan. First law may not be broken - it is a binding oath - none may spill blood in the circle.
The members of such a coven would be deemed oath-breakers, and called "warlocks" by other Wiccans. Warlock may in other forms of witch-craft be a term of respect though.
Wicca is a sub-branch (again, for want of a better term) of witch-craft. To tell a witch of a different "faith" that he is Wiccan would be like telling a Muslim that he is a Jew or a Roman Catholic.