Religion In what do you believe OFFTOPIC about SVF and sabro

[strongvoicesforward]

I am really, really trying my best to hold up my end-- but it doesn't seem like it is working. I thought of responding in kind, but your post diffused that effort.

Shall I continue my efforts at peace? Or is this a person who does not understand apology? Shall I again attemp to explain the concept of verbal irony and what Paul was actually and obviously saying? Or shall I resort to ridicule also since making him look ignorant in this point would be rather easy. Shall I treat it with respect as if there was a salient point and ask for spefics to bolster his laughable claims, or shall I respond with a witty retort designed to make him look even more laughable? Or shall I just ignore him as a few others have decided to do? Mars Man, have my efforts utterly failed?

Is there a way of saving this thread? Could we ever hope to actually and seriously discuss bible topics again?

LOL! You see, Mars Man? He acts as if he wants to do the right thing and not throw some humor or insults at me, so the way he gets around it is by putting them forth in question form. That just shows you all his previous attempts were couched and all one has to do is go back and look at them. This post and those are just obvious couched superficial bleatings for wanting things to be resolved.

Your 'apology' is understood, Sabro. However, it is insincere. Let me know when you can offer one properly.

 

[No-name]

Tsuyoiko-- Confirmational bias as I mentioned earlier is the best "scientific" explanation for the absolute confirmation of my faith by every event in my life, both fortuitous and tragic. I think it may also serve the same explanation for SVF's refusal to either see or understand any bible text in the context it was written. Instead he seems to try to read with an exacto knife and a bottle of white out. Perhaps you can briefly explain how you arrived at this point in your spiritual journey. You seem pretty balanced as an individual-- and what helped you arrive at your system of beliefs?

 

[strongvoicesforward]

...text in the context it was written. Instead he seems to try to read with an exacto knife and a bottle of white out.

Oh, you mean like you do when you "exacto knife" things out of whole posts for congratulating -- when right below them are overtly rude things written, huh?

I guess you share a propensity towards something you don't like in others.

 

[No-name]

Strongvoicesforward- I offered you an apology and an olive branch when no reciprocation was expected or offered from your side. It was a truly hones and sincere attempt to build a bridge. Such gestures should be welcomed in this world and not rejected outright. I anticipated if nothing else, that we might actually get back to the discussions at hand, but perhaps that was too optimistic.

My problem with your arguments on your hunting thread was not your perspective or point of view. It was with the fact that the foundations you based it on defied logic and that you resorted to ridiculing any who you felt disagreed with you. Your slams on Christianity likewise are purposefully offensive. I have a sincere problem with the way you conduct yourself on this forum and I don't appologize for holding you to task on things I feel are dead wrong. I have owned up to my end in this little drama. If you would like to continue this drawn out discussion on how your farts smell like roses ("I have always conducted myself in a civil manner, I have never purposely offended anyone.") and how your primary thinking is the only logical construct in existence, I suggest we move it to a thread of that purpose and let the big people talk here.

 

[No-name]

I would appreciate you bringing those things to my attention. Please point out the specific things you felt were overtly rude. I assure you rudeness is never my intention.

 

[strongvoicesforward]

Strongvoicesforward- I offered you an apology and an olive branch when no reciprocation was expected or offered from your side. It was a truly hones and sincere attempt to build a bridge. Such gestures should be welcomed in this world and not rejected outright.

They are soundly rejected when couched with insinuating insults and with words that make the apology seem to be premised on something from on the side of the person who you are apologising to.

I anticipated if nothing else, that we might actually get back to the discussions at hand, but perhaps that was too optimistic.

Seeing that your overtures were hollow, you were too optimistic -- like Christians are in thinking the SOG is coming again. Btw, he isn`t. Because -- he doesn`t exist.

My problem with your arguments on your hunting thread was not your perspective or point of view. It was with the fact that the foundations you based it on defied logic and that you resorted to ridiculing any who you felt disagreed with you.

They did not defy logic. You were showing "intolerance" towards life forms that feel pain and can suffer -- wanting to just carve out considering the interests of others' autonomy for life to humans only. In addition, you showed "intolerance" and a lack of "logic" by refusing to see that Direct Action in the form of violence has been and is something that has been successful and embraced by many, if not most groups in history and your intolerance showed that you could not let humans extend the rights to autonomy of life free from oppression by humans to animals.

Was it I who began the slide? I do remember the first outburst by you came onto the screen with something like, "That is cr@p!"

Your slams on Christianity likewise are purposefully offensive.

No, they are not. You are too sensitive to wit and humor and those mixed in with disagreement of your religion and what you put forth. For you to know that they are "purposeful" would require that you have some access to inside my thoughts. I don`t see you anywhere in between my ears taking notes.

I have owned up to my end in this little drama.

No, you have proffered insincere overtures with couched apologies affixed to heming and hawing and further insinuated insults. You don`t know how to do that which you are attempting.

If you would like to continue this drawn out discussion on how your farts smell like roses ("I have always conducted myself in a civil manner, I have never purposely offended anyone.") and how your primary thinking is the only logical construct in existence,...[/quote]

I have never purposely offended you either. You are just too sensitive.

I suggest we move it to a thread of that purpose and let the big people talk here.

Agreed. Mars Man can continue with the points he wants to make about Peter and the crowing roosters.

 

[No-name]

Thank you for moving this to this thread. I had almost forgotten about it and I believe this to be the appropriate corner of the forum to continue this particular discussion.

Obviously my eight separate apologies were unacceptable. Perhaps you can educate me at what you would require to believe my apologies and offers of peace are sincere.

 

[strongvoicesforward]

I would appreciate you bringing those things to my attention. Please point out the specific things you felt were overtly rude. I assure you rudeness is never my intention.

You calling me or insinuating that I am "intolerant," "a bigot," "filled with hate," "bitter," "a bigot."

It was rude of you to congratulate and encourage a part (your exacto knife pulling things out of context -- if you will) of a post that called me "Hitler," that "hoped for my being eaten by a pack of animals," "someone calling me a loony."

Your dismissive attitude in your first 3 posts in the WOG thread, your first post in the SOG thread with the "swing and miss" comment and then the later, "Strike 3 you`re out," comment are all examples that showed you to be the one to innitially drag things away from the arguments and into the "attack the messenger" mode instead of "addressing the message."

And note, when someone apologises, there is a difference between:

I am sorry I sorry for what I did. (accepts guilt clearly)

I am sorry you were offended. (implies a feeling for the other who has been transgressed upon, but does not imply any responsibility on the person offering the apology)

I would think that your hermeautics would let you know that -- or since you are so well versed in it, you knew exactly how to construct your apology to save your pride and avoid any responsibility.

All your offers of olive branches are premised and affixed to insinuating comments.

 

[Revenant]

The Idiots guide to SVFism.

We'll start off with just a couple of basic tenants of this belief system.

1. Thou shalt be impervious to all but thine own Point-Of-View.
2. There can be no other definitions but the one that suits you.

(note: the above is witticism! Are you not disarmed SVF? I completely expect an lol out of you btw, and if you don't, or even get offended, then you are by your own tenants too sensitive to witticism and humor)

 

[nurizeko]

Well, I am more of a Brit than a North American, so I am only half-evil. :evil:
That sounds like something I could do. And after that they did come back 2 years later ? (the same guys ?)

Seems alot of effort, i just stuck a "please give blood" sticker in the little window on our front-door, havnt seen any jehova'S witnesses since.

Not that missionary activity seems to be a problem in my local area.

As for Japan, i think theres something aobut this country which seems to repel the religious missionaries, ive yet to see so much as one crazy preacher/preist with a loudphone calling for the unbelievers to repent.


I remember onetime in town with my mates we ended up for some reason in a conversation with a preist bloke who was preaching, we had a nice little conversation, and he actually seemed reasonable for a street preacher, though in the end my friends went away unconverted and he went back to his holy task, it was nice to meet a christian of christians, having a reasonable debate with me and you know, even if no-body was swayed by the others argument, we were able to get a good debate out of it and walk away on good terms.

If it wasnt wierd, i would kiss every christian that could respect my outlook on life as much as that preist bloke did.

As wrong as we may see it, most missionaries are only doing their jobn because they want to help you and save you.....it can appear misguided to the non-beliver but, it is just their best intentions, even if it can be an annoyance.

then there are those christians who use it for other not so well intentioned reasons.

I dont see the problem with sabro, some folk, like mac and SVF use their experience with christians to become hostile towards them and use the same weapons as the christians they dislike, me, on the otherhand, i prefer to just ignore and walk away from those types of christians, i learned long ago that you cant win over the deeply faithful, because faith isnt based on scientific argument, fact and truth, its based on belief, and it really is above and beyond reach of what we hold to be truth.

Its like trying to convince a rock to be a cat instead, no matter how hard you try it can be pushed and threatened, chipped a bit, scratched, but its still going to be a rock when your finished.

I dont know how better to describe, though im sure theres a way.

when i finally escape church and christianity at 13, i had already learned that they can show a good act of genuine debate, but in the end they are still christian and you are still atheist, if someone is destined to become atheist or someone is destined to become christian, chances are, they get there under their own power.

 

[strongvoicesforward]

The Idiots guide to SVFism.
We'll start off with just a couple of basic tenants of this belief system.
1. Thou shalt be impervious to all but thine own Point-Of-View.
2. There can be no other definitions but the one that suits you.
(note: the above is witticism! Are you not disarmed SVF? I completely expect an lol out of you btw, and if you don't, or even get offended, then you are by your own tenants too sensitive to witticism and humor)

Since you are begging for it, I will give it to you -- LOL!

Have I ever thrown an expletive at Sabro as a form of wit or humor? I`ve never called him an idiot and I hadn`t even referred to him as intolerant until he began throwing that word around.

I had always focused on the Bible but he was the one to turn it personal rather than just focusing on the argument.

1. Sorry, Kumo has already convinced me Christians are much worse than Nazis in their hatred of Jews. See? I am not impervious to others' points of views. Kumo has changed mine.

2. Well, words do have meanings for a purpose. Yes, some words have multiple meanings in different context,but if one is going to read one that isn`t obvious into the text, then they should show what qualifies it to mean as such and it should be quite clear. Furthermore, if a hundred translators with thousands of years of experience choose one word without clearly implying the essence of a different meaning,then it is natural to assume they meant the most used meaning -- or they would have used a more appropriate word to more clearly relay that meaning.

A bat is never a bird.


Now, should I go down the road of creating "Idiots" guides for Revenant, Sabro, or threads titeled as such for humor on the Bible?

No, I won`t -- because the word "idiot" is an overt word to attack and belittle. But, I see you have no problem with it. Though, coming from a quasi Christian, it is appropriate and is to be expected in use for you to try and make your point.

One more LOL for you, Revenant.

Alms for the poor!

 

[No-name]

You calling me or insinuating that I am "intolerant," "a bigot," "filled with hate," "bitter," "a bigot."
It was rude of you to congratulate and encourage a part (your exacto knife pulling things out of context -- if you will) of a post that called me "Hitler," that "hoped for my being eaten by a pack of animals," "someone calling me a loony."
Your dismissive attitude in your first 3 posts in the WOG thread, your first post in the SOG thread with the "swing and miss" comment and then the later, "Strike 3 you`re out," comment are all examples that showed you to be the one to innitially drag things away from the arguments and into the "attack the messenger" mode instead of "addressing the message."
And note, when someone apologises, there is a difference between:
I am sorry I sorry for what I did. (accepts guilt clearly)
I am sorry you were offended. (implies a feeling for the other who has been transgressed upon, but does not imply any responsibility on the person offering the apology)
I would think that your hermeautics would let you know that -- or since you are so well versed in it, you knew exactly how to construct your apology to save your pride and avoid any responsibility.
All your offers of olive branches are premised and affixed to insinuating comments.

Point #1: You are in fact intolerant, a bigot, bitter and filled with hate. I believe that to be an accurate assessment of you and your utter hatred for Christianity. I take full responsibility for these words and I stand behind them. I hope you can see things from my perspective for a moment and see how comments and what you think as cute witticisms are actually quite offensive. And please don't try to minimize this by calling me oversensitive-- I find that especially insulting and I don't need it.

Point #2: You are quite correct. I wanted to express thankfulness for Reiku expressing his experience with the painfulness of starvation. I should have been more specific in my gratitude. I also congratulated someone who probably called you other names because at the time I found it funny and it seemed appropriate. That was quite wrong and I appologize.

Point #3 I used the baseball metaphor to show that you weren't actually supporting your assumption and that each of your statements had a rather obvious and pedestrian explanation. I was trying to highlight the weakness of your argument and it was not meant as a personal attack. I will not accuse you of being oversensitive or claim that it was wit or humor. It was inappropriate and I appologize.

Again if you pick up insinuation from my comments, it is inadvertant. I do find your manner rude, insulting and full of ridicule. It is not due to some oversensitivity, ignorance on my part, nor is this "couching". I cannot appologize for telling you the cold hard truth about your manner and mannerisms. I do no believe I should apologize for pointing this out to you.

 

[No-name]

By the way, I am a Christian and I bear no hatred for the Jews. This would be another blanket statement: "Christians are worse than Nazi's" and accusing them of anti-semitism. Again it does not take a sensitive person to recognize such bigotry for what it is.

If I said Athiests and vegetarians are worse than Nazis, you might begin to understand. Perhaps if someone called you a Hitler wannabe, a looney nazi who should be eaten by animals, you might understand how offensive a statement like you continue to make and justify is.

As for the bats and birds stuff- it was addressed and dismissed- hence the baseball analogy. If that is the entire basis for your proof in debunking Christianity than calling it a strike is not an insult, it is a kindness.

One last edit: I will be as civil and respectful as I can. My appology is sincere and the offer of an olive branch always has been. However if you expect me to modify my behavior more, I suggest you seriously look at your posts and change your behavior. I will continue to point out where you are terribly in error including behavior that I find rude and offensive. I will endeavor however to refrain from doing more than I need to to point this out to you and to do it in a way that spares your feelings and preserves your dignity as much as I can.

 

[Revenant]

Have I ever thrown an expletive at Sabro as a form of wit or humor? I`ve never called him an idiot and I hadn`t even referred to him as intolerant until he began throwing that word around.

You have never used an expletive, but intolerant is a word that describes you well. Intolerant for an entire group of people doesn't describe them well.

I had always focused on the Bible but he was the one to turn it personal rather than just focusing on the argument.

I'm not getting into that, since that is now between you and Sabro.

1. Sorry, Kumo has already convinced me Christians are much worse than Nazis in their hatred of Jews. See? I am not impervious to others' points of views. Kumo has changed mine.

Oh well, that makes you all the more tolerant, doesn't it? Can we expect more changes in this direction?

2. Well, words do have meanings for a purpose. Yes, some words have multiple meanings in different context,but if one is going to read one that isn`t obvious into the text, then they should show what qualifies it to mean as such and it should be quite clear. Furthermore, if a hundred translators with thousands of years of experience choose one word without clearly implying the essence of a different meaning,then it is natural to assume they meant the most used meaning -- or they would have used a more appropriate word to more clearly relay that meaning.
A bat is never a bird.

And always means 100% of the time in every case? Does 'unsuitable helper' absolutely imply bestiality? All other people I have spoken to on the net would disagree, and say that it could be read that way, but that it isn't the only way it could be read (you should also know that most of the people I have talked to aren't Christian).

Now, should I go down the road of creating "Idiots" guides for Revenant, Sabro, or threads titeled as such for humor on the Bible?

No, I won`t -- because the word "idiot" is an overt word to attack and belittle. But, I see you have no problem with it. Though, coming from a quasi Christian, it is appropriate and is to be expected in use for you to try and make your point.

One more LOL for you, Revenant.

Alms for the poor!

Idiot was meant as witticism. Did I say 'SVF is and idiot'? I did not. It wasn't at all meant as an insult.

Everyone understands that in buying a book titled 'The Idiots Guide to Digital Photography', it is humor, and no one takes it seriously. My father has that book btw, and he nor anyone else considers him an idiot. Lastly, an Idiots guide to SVFism isn't even subtly attacking you at all, let alone overtly. You are far too sensitive to witticism and humor!

EDIT: My disagreements with your points doesn't make me Christian at all.

 

[strongvoicesforward]

LOL!

Revenant, I am wondering if Sabro would be angry if I started thread titles with "Idiot Guide for Christians to ~~~" or "Idiot Guide to the Bible for ~~~ and a many combination of them that I could think of. I am guessing he wouldn`t find that very witty.

But man, the possibilities are endless. I think if I started those thread titles, Sabro would have wished you never brought it up. But just a guess. I prophecy that Sabro will say I am wrong in my assumption so as to not agree with me. Let`s see if I am a prophet.

Will address more of your post above, have to go somewhere. Same for your post to brother Sabro.

 

[Revenant]

Well let me see, wouldn't an Idiots guide for Christians with the content of your thread be implying that Christians are idiots? But there is a 'The Bible for Dummies', and I don't think it goes along the same lines as your threads do.

 

[nurizeko]

I've read this entire thread and i now feel i am able to make a legitimate comment on SVF.



A refined troll who is skilled in his art, but still nothing more then a troll.

Why do you come to these forums SVF?....do you considor your name literally?, do you honestly feel you are a strong voice forward?.

You have shown yourself on countless occassions to lack any interest in genuine discussion, you have your opinions, and contempt against certain groups of people, and you have no interest in genuine discussion, winning people over, or spreading a message, your "style of debate" is to harrass and poke at people until you get a desired response of insult, then proceed to masturbate your ego in your responses to them, self-congratulating yourself on being so great (at living in your own world where only you matter).

Very little of your contributions to this forum are actually in the form of legitimate debate backed up by evidence, it is also quite obvious that right or wrong, you carry an irrattional and unfair contempt for all christians, conveniently ignoring their humanity and individuality (most likely somewhere in a response of yours will be claiming christians arent human or individuals).
Whatever your reasons, in proper debate, you leave your contempt and hatreds and bigotry at the door, if you want to disprove the bible and christianity, you CAN do it in a way that doesnt require you to insult christians.
That isnt debate, that is argument.

At times you can almost appear reasonable, but always the prevailing theme of your replies are those of omni-slashing insults and harrasment poorly attempted to be passed as logical legitimate counters to anothers opinions and responses.

The only time ive witnessed you so much as try to be reasonable, was in response to macimo, most likely in the hope of continuing to carry his favour.

In any other debate forum, you would have been banned, or warned for your behaviour.

My advice to us members of the forum is to ignore SVF from now on.
He will try all the harder to harrass you into an argument, because thats the only reason he attends the forum, for conflict and to stroke his ego and sense of rightiousness, but eventually, without people playing his little game, he will move on somewhere else to get his kicks.

Who knows, maybe it will give SVF a chance to prove the worth of his contributions to the forum are more then stubborn as rock statements and irrational contempt veiled as a sincere pass at debate.

Other people have commented on your behaviour SFV here, which seems to be legitimate observation, so comes to an end my addition to this thread.

 

[Tsuyoiko]

That seems a fair assessment to me Nuri - and your advice seems sound too.

 

[Revenant]

My advice to us members of the forum is to ignore SVF from now on.

This I was thinking might be the best response, but I was also wondering if anyone was actually taking his posts seriously, and if that were the case, then I felt someone should counter his posts. I guess since both Nurizeko and Tsuyoiko do not consider him to actually be making actual debate, and thus not making actual points most of the time, that ignoring him is the best response.

 

[strongvoicesforward]

Point #1: You are in fact intolerant, a bigot, bitter and filled with hate. I believe that to be an accurate assessment of you and your utter hatred for Christianity. I take full responsibility for these words and I stand behind them. I hope you can see things from my perspective for a moment and see how comments and what you think as cute witticisms are actually quite offensive. And please don't try to minimize this by calling me oversensitive-- I find that especially insulting and I don't need it.

Here we go with the name calling and judging again by a so-called Christian who judges others when in fact his own Book tells him to not judge others.

Matt 7:1~5
"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

Brother Sabro, sounds like you are going against your own book. You will be taking "full responsibility" for those words when you are standing in front of your Angry Bible God, who knows all your dark sins, shortcomings and hypocracies. Now, is judging me, when your Book is telling you not to, really worth putting your eternal soul in danger here. Are you valuing more the rants you give and the points you get from some than knowng you are not pleasing your god by not doing what he tells you not to do?

If I had a Loving Father telling me not to do something and He were going to offer me a great present for pleasing him, I would be certain to try extra hard to do that which he tells me. Of course, I know I have my "trump" card to use by asking for forgiveness for my shortfallings, but that is rather calculating to use it knowingly.

But, in the world of Neo-Christianity, we all know that is quite acceptable.

And, you are oversensitive.

Again, I have not once told you to shut up or say that you were not welcome to post on your religion. If I have, then that would be "intolerant." It is quite clear that I tolerate your presence here and even invite you to defend your faith.

And like I said before, it is an old tactic of Jesus Cults to accuse those who speak strongly against their cult as bigots, bitter, and filled with hate. Many skeptics hear that. It is as if that is part of the Jesus Cult playbook when their skeptics are persistant and do not dance around their sensitivities.