If hg. IJ folks were Cro-magnon who were R* folks?

[Templar]

moving further into Europe they might have changed to more Dolichocephalic people (Corded Ware).

Yeah by mixing

 

[Goga]

Goga, perhaps I've asked you this once, but how come that Lithuanian has so much in common with Sanskrit? How come that so many upper-caste Indians look like Europeans?

Are you on crack? Indians don't look Europoid at all! Georgians look much more Europoid than Indians and Georgians don't even speak an Indo-European languagge!

Kurdish (Gorani, Kurmanji) (closely related to Avestan, Avestan and Sanskrit were almost the same brother languages) is much closer to Sanskrit than Lithuanian is.

Sanskrit is NOT a proto-Indo-European language but just part of an Indo-Iranic family and far relative to Balto-Slavic languages. Baltic folks were the last who began to speak an Indo-European language! Since Indo-Europeans speakers Indo-Europised (Mongoloid) Baltic folks. It's a close community with very few people, so after Indo-Europisation of native Mongoloid Balts their language didn't evolved very much.

Anatolian languages (+Armenian etc.) are much closer to ancient Indo-European languages than Balto-Slavic languages are. And Antolian languages are native to West Asia.

Anatolian languages were much more ARCHAIC Indo-European languages than other languages.

 

[Goga]

Ok what is your opinion as to why Scandinavians look different from other Northern Europeans? Why are their faces longer, and why are they taller?

Scandinavians are more hg. 'I*' folks than hg. 'R1*' folks. Also Indo-European Scandinavians don't have much of Mongoloid hg. N1c1 in them.

 

[Templar]

Also Indo-European Scandinavians don't have much of Mongoloid hg. N1c1 in them.

Okay, then why do Celts and East Slavs/Balts look similar? Celts don't have N1c1, yet they share many traits with Balts and Slavs. The connection is the high R1a and R1b occurance. The autosomal tests don't show this very clearly though, due to the imperfect way it is being done (for example the "East European autosomal includes a Mongoloid component, this alone makes it difficult to compare to other Europeans).

 

[Knovas]

Experiments show Indians fall somwhere between the West Eurasian and the East Eurasian cline, and that the so called South Asian component is mostly linked to West Asia. So Kardu wasn't wrong at all in that regard.

 

[Goga]

Experiments show Indians fall somwhere between the West Eurasian and the East Eurasian cline, and that the so called South Asian component is mostly linked to West Asia. So Kardu wasn't wrong at all in that regard.

You say it right. Some Indians look Caucasoid but not Europoid at all! Also some Indians look Caucasoid because of Iranic folks. Neolithic agriculture immigrants and Iranic folks brought West Asian (Caucasoid) component to India.

I don't know why but some Indians have some fetish to link themselves to Europe, while they're much closer to West Asia

 

[Templar]

Neolithic agriculture immigrants and Iranic folks brought West Asian (Caucasoid) component to India.

I don't know why but some Indians have some fetish to link themselves to Europe, while they're much closer to West Asia

Yes I agree with you about that (finally we agree on something). I think most of the Caucasoid autosomal genes found in South Asians are the result of West Asian neolithic migrants who brought agriculture (maybe even the Indus valley civilization was started by West Asians?). The Indo-european genetic influence wouldn't have been as strong, especially since India was already a full-fledged civilization when the invasion occurred.

 

[nordicwarrior]

Great discussion--time for me to jump in...
1. Templar--you seem like you know a few things! I'd like to pick your brain for an hour, no joke. I might learn some things. May I ask your y-haplogroup?
2. Concerning skull shapes--I'm dolichocephalic, so is my dad and his brother. All I1's. What does this mean? (I also have a giant mellon head with a size 8 hatsize. This means extra intelligence I'm hoping.)
3. I concede that R1a could have single handedly brought blue eyes into Europe (judging by the corresponding eye color maps), but I'm not conceding lighter skin and hair color to the R1a's. The Northern I's humped too many ice sheets for too long covered by too many wolf skins for their skin color to not be impacted. The map depicting blonde hair is basically centered over Northern I's hometown. Also, who's to say that blonde and red hair is a single mutation? I thought this was still being discussed by the lab coats. I think it's more probable that blonde and red hair were layered in by waves of both I's and R1a's.

 

[Knovas]

As we go to the East, obviously we can't expect the same looks, and Indians experienced several events of admixture considering their location. They have Caucasoid traits but dark skin (very dark sometimes), which is curious when comparing to their neighbours: mongoloid traits and lighter skin pigmation as whole.

 

[Templar]

3. I concede that R1a could have single handedly brought blue eyes into Europe (judging by the corresponding eye color maps), but I'm not conceding lighter skin and hair color to the R1a's.

It is all still up for debate since research and testing is always showing us new things, but I do think that R1a was the main source of both the Light eye genes and Blonde hair. Red hair seems to be a mutation which can only affect those who already have the usual light-hair genes (I forgot where I read this, I will try to link it if I find it). The original Paleolithic Europeans though likely already had light skin, but maybe not as light as the R1a.

1. Templar--you seem like you know a few things! I'd like to pick your brain for an hour, no joke. I might learn some things. May I ask your y-haplogroup?

Thank you, but in all honesty there are many much more informed members on this forum, especially the creator of the forum, Maciamo. I agree with him on most things. My y-haplogroup is I2a, though I myself was never tested, but my father's brother was and his results said that he was I2a (since we share patrilineal ancestry, I must have I2a aswell).

2. Concerning skull shapes--I'm dolichocephalic, so is my dad and his brother. All I1's. What does this mean?

I don't know much about skull measurements and skull-classifications. It is best left to the professionals due to its complex nature. I also am hesitant to use it, because skull-classifications are often used in a biased way.

 

[Templar]

They have Caucasoid traits but dark skin (very dark sometimes)

The dark skin is likely due to admixture with Australoid natives.

 

[Knovas]

The Paniya from the Chaubey et al study show 4.6% in the Australasian component, and they peak in South Asian with almost 85% (globe13 analysis). So it's possible.

 

[Yetos]

It is all still up for debate since research and testing is always showing us new things, but I do think that R1a was the main source of both the Light eye genes and Blonde hair. Red hair seems to be a mutation which can only affect those who already have the usual light-hair genes (I forgot where I read this, I will try to link it if I find it). The original Paleolithic Europeans though likely already had light skin, but maybe not as light as the R1a.



Thank you, but in all honesty there are many much more informed members on this forum, especially the creator of the forum, Maciamo. I agree with him on most things. My y-haplogroup is I2a, though I myself was never tested, but my father's brother was and his results said that he was I2a (since we share patrilineal ancestry, I must have I2a aswell).




I don't know much about skull measurements and skull-classifications. It is best left to the professionals due to its complex nature. I also am hesitant to use it, because skull-classifications are often used in a biased way.

I think no, except if R1a is Baltic component,

the light skin, the extra white to pink skin should also be in the same mutation were blondism happened,

R1a homeland is far from Baltic,

 

[Templar]

I think no, except if R1a is Baltic component,

the light skin, the extra white to pink skin should also be in the same mutation were blondism happened,

R1a homeland is far from Baltic,

That is implying that light features evolved in the Baltic. Maybe the light features were just as present elsewhere, but subsequent migrations and invasions prevented it from continuing to modern day times. Maybe it is the isolated location of the Baltic is the thing that makes its population have retain high blondness rates.

 

[Yetos]

I mean that original R1a could not be so white skin as is in today high peaks of Baltic.

Besides lets look and something else,
from blond -white skin Baltic to balkans we have white skin dark-hair populations (central Europe) and then brown hair but easy to change brown-white skin population,

North of Balkans we have less brown population and then Blonds

gradualy brown drops and blondism raises, Leaving outsisde west Europe, that does not happen in China-Moggolia-Berig sea,
and where is the homeland of red hair population?.
not in West Europe, neither at Central and East Asian steppe. but somewhere among North parts of Mediterenean to Caucas to Baltic

 

[Kardu]

Are you on crack? Indians don't look Europoid at all! Georgians look much more Europoid than Indians and Georgians don't even speak an Indo-European languagge!

Kurdish (Gorani, Kurmanji) (closely related to Avestan, Avestan and Sanskrit were almost the same brother languages) is much closer to Sanskrit than Lithuanian is.

Sanskrit is NOT a proto-Indo-European language but just part of an Indo-Iranic family and far relative to Balto-Slavic languages. Baltic folks were the last who began to speak an Indo-European language! Since Indo-Europeans speakers Indo-Europised (Mongoloid) Baltic folks. It's a close community with very few people, so after Indo-Europisation of native Mongoloid Balts their language didn't evolved very much.

Anatolian languages (+Armenian etc.) are much closer to ancient Indo-European languages than Balto-Slavic languages are. And Antolian languages are native to West Asia.

Anatolian languages were much more ARCHAIC Indo-European languages than other languages.

Since we are talking this way I could also say that you got blind from crack as you dont see that I have written UPPER CASTE INDIANS!
You can push your agenda as much as you like but you won't convince anyone who has little bit of knowledge in these matters.
Lithuanian language shows many similarities with Sanskrit and Baltic pagan religion still contains the most archaic layers pf proto-indoeuropean belief system...
You like it or not Aryans conquering North India were light and blonde and it's well-attested in the Rig Veda.

 

[Templar]

Since we are talking this way I could also say that you got blind from crack as you dont see that I have written UPPER CASTE INDIANS!
You can push your agenda as much as you like but you won't convince anyone who has little bit of knowledge in these matters.
Lithuanian language shows many similarities with Sanskrit and Baltic pagan religion still contains the most archaic layers pf proto-indoeuropean belief system...
You like it or not Aryans conquering North India were light and blonde and it's well-attested in the Rig Veda.

Right on mate.

 

[Goga]

Since we are talking this way I could also say that you got blind from crack as you dont see that I have written UPPER CASTE INDIANS!
You can push your agenda as much as you like but you won't convince anyone who has little bit of knowledge in these matters.
Lithuanian language shows many similarities with Sanskrit and Baltic pagan religion still contains the most archaic layers pf proto-indoeuropean belief system...
You like it or not Aryans conquering North India were light and blonde and it's well-attested in the Rig Veda.

Huh? I don't have any agenda, what is my agenda? I'm just trying to make a journey into the past!

The difference between UPPER CASTE INDIANS and other Indians is that UPPER CASTE INDIANS have much more West Asian haplogroups in them: more J2a more G2a etc.

Speaking about the Aryans; Aryans spoke proto-Iranic and not Baltic or Slavic and Zoroastrianism was the only official ARYAN religion (of Media and later Persia).
The only true and direct descendants of those Aryans are not Indians or Slavic & Baltic people, but Iranic tribes which still transmit the legacy of their ancient ancestors to future generations.

Have a good day.

 

[Templar]

Huh? I don't have any agenda, what is my agenda?I'm just trying to make a journey into the past!

You do have an agenda. You are Kurdish, and you want Indo-Europeans to look like you.

The difference between UPPER CASTE INDIANS and other Indians is that UPPER CASTE INDIANS have much more West Asian haplogroups in them: more J2a more G2a etc.

They also have R1a, which isn't West Asian. It is from the Eurasian Steppe, which ranges from the outskirts of Eastern Europe to Central Asia.

Speaking about the Aryans; Aryans spoke proto-Iranic and

The leadership likely overwhelmingly had light features. Their cultural influence was strong enough to change the local language to an Indo-European one, but genetically they didn't change the make up of West Asia much.

 

[Goga]

You do have an agenda. You are Kurdish, and you want Indo-Europeans to look like you.



They also have R1a, which isn't West Asian. It is from the Eurasian Steppe, which ranges from the outskirts of Eastern Europe to Central Asia.


The leadership likely overwhelmingly had light features. Their cultural influence was strong enough to change the local language to an Indo-European one, but genetically they didn't change the make up of West Asia much.

Yes, I'm a Kurd and I'm native to Kurdistan. I don't care at all how proto-IE speakers looked like. Why should I?

Also, since I'm not Hamitic, Semitic and since my native language is Kurdic which is part of Iranic (ARYAN) language family, I'm Irnaic.

R1a is among all Indians from low cast Indians, upper cast Indians to castless Indians.

A part of Iranian plateau IS IN Central Asia. And of all Indo-European speakers Kurds have the most Central Asian aDNA component in them, after East-Iranic Central Asians of course.

Lol, Persians and the Medes were always darker than Greeks in the west. That's a fact. Aryans were mostly West Asian - Cetnral Asian hybrids my friend.

Neh, You're just jealous about my history and heritage. And now go and read what ancient Greeks wrote about my ancestors..