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Genetic Origins of Minoans and Mycenaeans

kingjohn said:
40-60% bronze age look very high to me
i think more in the 30 % levant bronze age would be the right number

here is mine :



[TH="class: singleheader, colspan: 2, align: left"]Target: Adam
Distance: 0.3357% / 0.33566173[/TH]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]28.4[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Minoan_Lasithi_I0070[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]21.1[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Levant_BA[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]18.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Bell_Beaker[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]7.9[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Hungary_IronAge[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]6.6[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Corded_Ware_Estonia[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]5.4[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Armenia_MLBA[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]3.1[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Satsurblia_CHG[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]3.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Natufian[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]2.1[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Kotias_CHG[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]1.4[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Minoan_Odigitria_I9131[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]1.1[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]MiddleDorset_Arctic[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]1.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Alberstedt_LN[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]0.9[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Armenia_EBA[/TD]

[TH="class: singleheader, colspan: 2, align: left"]Target: Adam
Distance: 0.3357% / 0.33566173[/TH]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]28.4[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Minoan_Lasithi_I0070[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]21.1[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Levant_BA[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]18.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Bell_Beaker[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]7.9[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Hungary_IronAge[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]6.6[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Corded_Ware_Estonia[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]5.4[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Armenia_MLBA[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]3.1[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Satsurblia_CHG[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]3.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Natufian[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]2.1[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Kotias_CHG[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]1.4[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Minoan_Odigitria_I9131[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]1.1[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]MiddleDorset_Arctic[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]1.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Alberstedt_LN[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]0.9[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Armenia_EBA[/TD]



p.s
i am 1/4 bulgarian so that could effect the results a little bit ( hungary iron age+ corded ware estonia)
and 1/4 mizrahi that could be the showing (chg allells + armenia MLB)
Click to expand...


Can this Levant admixture be separated into 2 parts ?

ie....lebanon levant was still under the Hittites up to 1100BC and still spoke luwian until 600BC

israel levant was phoenician and philistine lands

so, can 2 different levant admixtures be done ?
 
Torzio: Eurogenes K13 has the ancient Sidon Samples which are from what would be the Phoenician era are close to it. These samples are from about 1700 BC or 3,700 years ago. So I think these samples would be a good proxy for Phoenicians that started the Pheonician civilization which seems to appear in the written records of the Egyptians shortly after, around 1500 BC.
 
Palermo Trapani said:
Torzio: Eurogenes K13 has the ancient Sidon Samples which are from what would be the Phoenician era are close to it. These samples are from about 1700 BC or 3,700 years ago. So I think these samples would be a good proxy for Phoenicians that started the Pheonician civilization which seems to appear in the written records of the Egyptians shortly after, around 1500 BC.
Click to expand...

So it this sidon sample a Phoenician due to some type of phoenician trading post or was it a person under hittite rule

we know by history , that the hittite-egyptian border was still 10km south of Kadesh.......see map below

this border remained in place until the demise of the Hittites








Syrian-lebaon border Kadesh is spelt
[h=1]Qadesh - Tell Nebi Mend[/h]
 
Torzio: I think the Egyptians sent trading merchants to that area around 1,500 BC and that is when their were contacts between Ancient Egyptians at that time and the ancient Phoenicians and thus appearing in the Egyptian texts. The Phoenician territory was more coastal along what is modern Syria and Lebanon to modern Northern Israel, with coastal Lebanon being the core of the territory, consistent with them being traders using shipping and sea lanes for trading, (i.e. Sea Peoples so to speak).
 
Palermo Trapani said:
Torzio: I think the Egyptians sent trading merchants to that area around 1,500 BC and that is when their were contacts between Ancient Egyptians at that time and the ancient Phoenicians and thus appearing in the Egyptian texts. The Phoenician territory was more coastal along what is modern Syria and Lebanon to modern Northern Israel, with coastal Lebanon being the core of the territory, consistent with them being traders using shipping and sea lanes for trading, (i.e. Sea Peoples so to speak).
Click to expand...


I think the proper term for the border was

[h=1]Qadesh - Tell Nebi Mend and Not Kadesh ..............the battle was fought at Kadesh, who knows [/h]
 
Torzio: I really don't know about the genetic affinity of those Sidon samples. I need to go find the paper that analyzed them. All I am suggesting is that they can provide a reasonable proxy for the genetic admixture or genetic profile of peoples in that area at that time including not only Phoenicians, but Canaanites, Samaritans, etc.
 
Torzio: Here is an article that focused specifically on the Sidon Samples. I have not read this paper but I think I will check it out. A quick read of the abstract indicates that the ancient Greeks referred to the Canaanites as Phoenicians so assuming the ancient Greeks were accurate, it suggest these ancient Sidon samples are a reasonable source to try to capture Phoenician ancestry vs. other ancestry further North in the Levant, say Hittites, etc.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002929717302768
 
Last edited:
I think the levant bronze age in mdlp k11
Is based on jordan bronze age rather than sidon bronze age ... :thinking:
( but i might be wrong )
 
kingjohn said:
..,the british roman 15.9% is realy a levantine gladiator from york
so this could be levantine influence .... ‘
Click to expand...

Vahaduo MDLP K11 British Roman:


[TH="class: singleheader, colspan: 2"] Target: British_Roman
Distance: 2.8738% / 2.87381497
 [/TH]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 84.2 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Levant_BA [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 10.0 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Armenia_MLBA [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 3.9 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Ancient_Neandertal [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 1.0 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Satsurblia_CHG [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 0.9 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Iran_Chalcolithic [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TH="class: singleheader, colspan: 2"] Target: Duarte
Distance: 0.1912% / 0.19121953
 [/TH]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 19.8 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Bell_Beaker [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 13.3 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] GermanStuttgart_LBK [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 12.1 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Bell_Beaker_Czech [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 9.0 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Samara_HG [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 5.2 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] GermanStuttgart_LBK [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 5.1 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Greek_Neolithic [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 5.1 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Levant_BA [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 4.8 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Baltic_LBA [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 4.8 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] LBK_EN [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 2.7 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] GoyetQ53_1_Gravettian [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 2.4 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Minoan_Lasithi_I0070 [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 2.1 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Natufian [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 1.8 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Denisovan [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 1.6 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Tyrolean_Iceman_EN [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 1.5 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Ancient_Australian [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 1.4 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Salzmuende_MN [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 1.3 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Neandertal_Altai [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 1.2 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Ancient_Denisova [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 1.2 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Hungary_CA [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 1.1 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] AfontovaGora3_Paleolithic [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 0.8 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Halberstadt_LBA [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 0.7 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Neandertal_Mezmaiskaya [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 0.4 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Ancient_Neandertal [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 0.4 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Levant_N [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 0.1 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Clovis_Amerindian [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 0.1 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Esperstedt_MN [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TH="class: singleheader, colspan: 2"] Target: British_Roman
Distance: 2.8889% / 2.88891241 | ADC: 0.25x RC [/TH]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 83.4 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Levant_BA [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 6.7 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Armenia_LBA [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 6.3 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Iran_Chalcolithic [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 3.6 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Denisovan [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TH="class: singleheader, colspan: 2"] Target: Duarte
Distance: 1.9604% / 1.96038514 | ADC: 0.25x RC [/TH]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 43.3 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Maros_BA [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 24.7 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Crete_Armenoi_I9123 [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 16.6 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Bell_Beaker_Czech [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 9.6 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Levant_BA [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 5.8 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Mota_EastAfrica [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]
Genomic signals of migration and continuity in Britain before the Anglo-Saxons

“The European ancestral component predominates in the majority of ancient samples (which show similar profiles to modern northwestern Europeans), whereas 3DRIF-26 again shows a majority West Asian/Middle Eastern component.”
L0xJ3Z7.jpg



https://static-content.springer.com...cts/41467_2016_BFncomms10326_MOESM417_ESM.pdf

https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms10326#MOESM417

 
Last edited:
Duarte said:
Vahaduo MDLP K11 British Roman:


[TH="class: singleheader, colspan: 2"] Target: British_Roman
Distance: 2.8738% / 2.87381497
 [/TH]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 84.2 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Levant_BA [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 10.0 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Armenia_MLBA [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 3.9 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Ancient_Neandertal [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 1.0 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Satsurblia_CHG [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 0.9 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Iran_Chalcolithic [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TH="class: singleheader, colspan: 2"] Target: Duarte
Distance: 0.1912% / 0.19121953
 [/TH]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 19.8 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Bell_Beaker [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 13.3 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] GermanStuttgart_LBK [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 12.1 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Bell_Beaker_Czech [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 9.0 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Samara_HG [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 5.2 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] GermanStuttgart_LBK [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 5.1 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Greek_Neolithic [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 5.1 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Levant_BA [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 4.8 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Baltic_LBA [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 4.8 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] LBK_EN [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 2.7 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] GoyetQ53_1_Gravettian [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 2.4 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Minoan_Lasithi_I0070 [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 2.1 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Natufian [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 1.8 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Denisovan [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 1.6 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Tyrolean_Iceman_EN [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 1.5 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Ancient_Australian [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 1.4 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Salzmuende_MN [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 1.3 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Neandertal_Altai [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 1.2 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Ancient_Denisova [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 1.2 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Hungary_CA [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 1.1 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] AfontovaGora3_Paleolithic [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 0.8 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Halberstadt_LBA [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 0.7 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Neandertal_Mezmaiskaya [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 0.4 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Ancient_Neandertal [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 0.4 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Levant_N [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 0.1 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Clovis_Amerindian [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 0.1 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Esperstedt_MN [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TH="class: singleheader, colspan: 2"] Target: British_Roman
Distance: 2.8889% / 2.88891241 | ADC: 0.25x RC [/TH]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 83.4 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Levant_BA [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 6.7 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Armenia_LBA [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 6.3 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Iran_Chalcolithic [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 3.6 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Denisovan [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TH="class: singleheader, colspan: 2"] Target: Duarte
Distance: 1.9604% / 1.96038514 | ADC: 0.25x RC [/TH]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 43.3 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Maros_BA [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 24.7 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Crete_Armenoi_I9123 [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 16.6 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Bell_Beaker_Czech [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 9.6 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Levant_BA [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"] 5.8 [/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"] Mota_EastAfrica [/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]
Genomic signals of migration and continuity in Britain before the Anglo-Saxons

“The European ancestral component predominates in the majority of ancient samples (which show similar profiles to modern northwestern Europeans), whereas 3DRIF-26 again shows a majority West Asian/Middle Eastern component.”
L0xJ3Z7.jpg



https://static-content.springer.com...Objects/41467_2016_BFncomms10326_MOESM417_ESM.pdf

https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms10326#MOESM417
Click to expand...

yes he was a gladiator found in york
a cool dude he belonged to haplogroup j2 :cool-v:
and autosomally was different from the other gladiators
might have been north egyptian or nabataeans background :thinking:
 
It's obvious that Greeks as a whole have never belonged to the same genetic lineage as Western/Eastern Europeans. They're a midde population between them and the Near East.
 
@KingJohn,

Ancient Cretans are not from the Levant.

Crete for a time was influenced by the Moors, in the Middle Ages.

The population history of Crete can be traced to the early Neolithic when the island was colonized by farmers from Anatolia who established in Knossos, at about 7000 B.C.E., one of the first Neolithic settlements in Europe (Evans, 1994); other Neolithic settlements were subsequently established all over Crete (Tomkins, 2008). These Neolithic settlers and subsequent waves of Neolithic migrants (Broodbank & Strasser, 1991; Cherry, 1981; Nowicki, 2008; Weinberg, 1965) established the first advanced European civilization, the Minoan civilization, which flourished in Crete from 3000 to about 1450 B.C.E. (Evans, 1921). The island was subsequently conquered by the Myceneans of mainland Greece (Bennet, 2011; Chadwick, 1976; deFidio, 2008) who ruled from around 1450 to 1100 B.C.E. Homer (1650) describes Crete as a populous island with 90 cities inhabited by several tribes: the Achaeans, who correspond to the people now called Myceneans (Bennet, 2011; Schofield, 2007); the Pelasgians who were the pre‐Hellenic population of the Helladic space (Herodotus, 1999; Strabo, 2006); the Eteocretans (Cretans of the old stock); the Kydonians; and the Dorians (Strabo, 2006). Eteocretans and Kydonians were considered to be autochthonous Cretans while the other tribes originated from Greece (Strabo, 2006). There is little of significance coming from Crete during the classical times other than the frequent wars between the city‐states (Detorakis, 2015). Following the Hellenistic period during which there is no record of population migrations to Crete, the island was conquered in 69 B.C.E. by the Romans (Sanders, 1982). The almost 400 years of Roman occupation was followed by about 500 years of relatively peaceful rule by the Byzantines (Tsougarakis, 1988) until Crete fell in 827 C.E. to Arab exiles from Andalusia (Brooks, 1913; Christides, 1984; Detorakis, 2015; Vassiliev, 1980). The Arab Emirate of Crete was frequently raided the Aegean and Eastern Mediterranean, but after 134 years of Arab rule, the island was recaptured in 961 C.E. by the Byzantines (Norwich, 1998; Vassiliev, 1980). The 243 years of the second Byzantine rule ended when the Byzantine Empire fell to the Francs and the Venetians of the Fourth Crusade. The Venetians purchased the island in 1204 C.E. from the crusader Boniface of Montferrat; they ruled Crete for 465 years and established a feudal system that provoked several revolutions of the population (Detorakis, 2015; Xanthoudidis, 1939). From 1645 to 1669, Ottomans and Venetians fought for 24 years over Crete and the island was captured by the Ottomans who ruled for 267 years during which the Cretans revolted several times (Detorakis, 2015). The island gained its autonomy in 1889 and was unified with Greece in 1913.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/ahg.12328
Click to expand...

This is why people should read genetic studies, corroborated with historical references, rather than making false assumptions with amateur calculators. Also, you are running those calculators without any ADC penalty, so it is producing nonsensical results.
 
The Moors were mostly North African Berbers, which is why they could be modeled with bringing a Levant_BA-like contribution. Because the Levant was strongly influenced by the lasting impact of the Natufians, who were descended from ancient North Africans. Also Arabs had invaded North Africa several times as well. Ergo, this so called "Levant_BA" influence, is from Moors brought in the Middle Ages, not ancient times. The Ancient Greeks, and Romans were not Levantine.
 
Jovialis said:
@KingJohn,

Ancient Cretans are not from the Levant.

Crete for a time was influenced by the Moors, in the Middle Ages.



This is why people should read genetic studies, corroborated with historical references, rather than making false assumptions with amateur calculators. Also, you are running those calculators without any ADC penalty, so it is producing nonsensical results.
Click to expand...


Ok the ancient minoan
Didn't carry this signiture
But modern cretans and other greek islanders do

..
Could be the moors influence as you mention
Is why we see it
 
Cretans and Sicilians are far closer genetically to the ancient Greeks. A trivial amount of admixture from the middle ages does not negate that.
 
Jovialis said:
Cretans and Sicilians are far closer genetically to the ancient Greeks. A trivial amount of admixture from the middle ages does not negate that.
Click to expand...


I know but it is still there even if in low %
 
kingjohn said:
I know but it is still there even if in low %
Click to expand...

And of course it doesn't matter. This is just about being accurate.

Also, just like it shouldn't matter that Ashkenazi are more European, than they are Semitic/Levantine.


[FONT=&quot]In the PCA of Crete vs Europe, the Cretans overlap with three populations: the Peloponneseans, the Sicilians and the Ashkenazi Jews (see Figures [/FONT]4[FONT=&quot]a, [/FONT]S17[FONT=&quot], and [/FONT]S18[FONT=&quot]). Southern European and Mediterranean ancestry of the Ashkenazi Jews has also been demonstrated before (Atzmon et al., [/FONT][FONT=&quot]2010[/FONT][FONT=&quot]; Behar et al., [/FONT][FONT=&quot]2010[/FONT][FONT=&quot]; Bauchet et al., [/FONT][FONT=&quot]2007[/FONT][FONT=&quot]; Price et al., [/FONT][FONT=&quot]2008[/FONT][FONT=&quot]; Seldin et al., [/FONT][FONT=&quot]2006[/FONT][FONT=&quot]; Tian et al., [/FONT][FONT=&quot]2008[/FONT][FONT=&quot]). Furthermore, we find in both PCA and ADMIXTURE analysis, that the Ashkenazi are more similar to the Cretans than to the two Levantine Semitic populations. One possible explanation is that this relation might reveal a common Mediterranean ancestry that the Cretan and Ashkenazi populations share.

[/FONT]https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/ahg.12328
Click to expand...
 
kingjohn said:
Ok the ancient minoan
Didn't carry this signiture
But modern cretans and other greek islanders do
..
Could be the moors influence as you mention
Is why we see it
Click to expand...

Could be, as Jovialis is pointing out, that it is because you are using amateur calculators and in addition using them incorrectly.
 
Jovialis said:
The Moors were mostly North African Berbers, which is why they could be modeled with bringing a Levant_BA-like contribution. Because the Levant was strongly influenced by the lasting impact of the Natufians, who were descended from ancient North Africans. Also Arabs had invaded North Africa several times as well. Ergo, this so called "Levant_BA" influence, is from Moors brought in the Middle Ages, not ancient times. The Ancient Greeks, and Romans were not Levantine.
Click to expand...

Do they miss you at anthrogenica even though they banned you?

So, they have to come here to debate you? :)
 
Jovialis/King John: I went to the K13 Eurogenes on Vahaduo, which has really added lots of samples to that K13 Ancient Spreadsheet. I just ran my K13 coordinates against the ancient Levant and North African samples that I found on there (and included the Gladiator from England who was from the Levant). So nothing close, but closest among them are the Sidon Samples which are close to what was the Phoenician territory and from the time period when the Phoenicians were at their peak of power. So Phoenician/Carthaginian period in Sicily, Roman period (Imperial) with migrants from the Levant and later Saracen_Muslim period) you in my opinion pretty much get Sicily, and all of Southern Italy, pretty much where it was during the Greek/Roman period and no later than Imperial Roman period which is Sicilians, Southern Italians, etc plot with the Ancient Romans from that period (Antonio et al 2019) and when you move 2,000 years later, Parolo et al 2015 (Figure 1), Sazzini et al 2016 (Figure 2) , Raveane et al 2019 (Figure 1). Results are presented with Gradiant of 100 for clearer resolution.

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]PalermoTrapani[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFDA00, align: right"]28.66420241[/TD]
[TD]Sidon_BA_ERS1790729_[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFD300, align: right"]29.27878925[/TD]
[TD]Sidon_BA_ERS1790730_[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFC700, align: right"]30.49686869[/TD]
[TD]65_Lebanon_Canaanite_MBA.SG_3650_ybp[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFC600, align: right"]30.56379067[/TD]
[TD]KEB_4_(Morocco_5000_BP_keb.4_Morocco_378003650y.old[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFC200, align: right"]31.01886200[/TD]
[TD]63_Lebanon_Canaanite_MBA.SG_3650_ybp[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFC000, align: right"]31.13120942[/TD]
[TD]Sidon_BA_ERS1790732_[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFBA00, align: right"]31.78487691[/TD]
[TD]54_Lebanon_Canaanite_MBA.SG_3770_ybp[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFB300, align: right"]32.46734359[/TD]
[TD]Sidon_BA_ERS1790733_[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFB200, align: right"]32.52556533[/TD]
[TD]JK2134_Egypt_New_Kingdom_3250_ybp[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFB100, align: right"]32.60410710[/TD]
[TD]Sidon_733_Lebanon_[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFAB00, align: right"]33.21028907[/TD]
[TD]Sidon_731_Lebanon_[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFAB00, align: right"]33.22275877[/TD]
[TD]Sidon_BA_ERS1790731_[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF9D00, align: right"]34.61362882[/TD]
[TD]3DT26_England_Roman_MiddleEast.SG_1750_ybp[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF9000, align: right"]35.85934048[/TD]
[TD]I1699_Jordan_PPNC_8700_ybp[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF8E00, align: right"]36.04020116[/TD]
[TD]I0867_Israel_PPNB_8700_ybp[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF8E00, align: right"]36.08874340[/TD]
[TD]JK2888_Egypt_Hellenistic_2000_ybp[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF8D00, align: right"]36.14046071[/TD]
[TD]I0867_LevantN_[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF8800, align: right"]36.70365922[/TD]
[TD]I1710_Jordan_PPNB_9580_ybp[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF8500, align: right"]36.99612818[/TD]
[TD]JK2911_Egypt_Late_Period_2449_ybp[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF8500, align: right"]37.00179860[/TD]
[TD]I1707_Jordan_PPNB_9582_ybp[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF7D00, align: right"]37.78274739[/TD]
[TD]46_Lebanon_Canaanite_MBA.SG_3750_ybp[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF7500, align: right"]38.54688185[/TD]
[TD]I1704_Jordan_PPNB_9202_ybp[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF7100, align: right"]38.93668579[/TD]
[TD]jk2911_Egypt_769_560_BC_2_[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF6F00, align: right"]39.14742903[/TD]
[TD]I1730_Jordan_EBA_4344_ybp[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF6300, align: right"]40.30247511[/TD]
[TD]I1705_Jordan_EBA_4032_ybp[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF5900, align: right"]41.28234611[/TD]
[TD]I1706_Jordan_EBA_4345_ybp[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF4C00, align: right"]42.52424838[/TD]
[TD]Natufian_merged_M041601_[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF1800, align: right"]47.67782189[/TD]
[TD]I1072_Israel_Raqefet_M_Natufian_12750_ybp[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF1800, align: right"]47.68746062[/TD]
[TD]3DT16_England_Roman.SG_1750_ybp[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF0010, align: right"]51.58530702[/TD]
[TD]iam_5_N_Africa_5199_5176y_old_
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
Last edited:
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