Economic model of sexual access

[davef]

A big nose can be attractive, as long as it isn't big an awkward enough to make you look like Alf

 

[Salento]

A big nose can be attractive, as long as it isn't big an awkward enough to make you look like Alf

Beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder.

 

[Angela]

Beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder.

True to some extent, but there are societal norms which actually change over time which influence how you interpret what you see with your eyes.

Before actors are hired, for example, producers sometimes hire marketing companies to do some testing to see which actor or actress is more appealing. The same thing happens when certain commercials are made. There are differences by sex too. What a woman thinks is beautiful in terms of female beauty may not be the same as what a man thinks, even if they're in the same culture.

 

[Salento]

True to some extent, but there are societal norms which actually change over time which influence how you interpret what you see with your eyes.

Before actors are hired, for example, producers sometimes hire marketing companies to do some testing to see which actor or actress is more appealing. The same thing happens when certain commercials are made. There are differences by sex too. What a woman thinks is beautiful in terms of female beauty may not be the same as what a man thinks, even if they're in the same culture.

In many old paintings, Man and Woman were depicted in such a way that by today western standard are consider over weight.
Roman noses, were also exaggerated in Statues or Coins, as an indication of Power, and Intelligence.
George Washington Painting with a belly represented an healthy, wealthy and respected Leader.
- Edited -
Even Cleopatra’s nose it’s not realistic imo.

The Berlin Cleopatra, a Roman bust of Cleopatra VII wearing a royal diadem, mid-1st century BC (i.e. around the time of her visits to Rome in 46-44 BC), discovered in a villa along the Via Appia; it is now located in the Altes Museum. (She looks somewhat Greekish to me)

- Coin of Cleopatra -

——————————-

Empress Faustina Jr, Marcus Aurelius’ Wife. Look at the nose.
- This coin is mine - [emoji4]

All this images have in common a big nose with a small hook at the tip.

 

[Sile]

Actually I believe both men and women at the end want the same, their perfect match and soulmate so they can fully commit for the rest of the life.
I've discussed the topic for years with women and after "pushing and squeezing" the truth always came out that they would all like to have adventures with many guys and this dream of theirs gets fulfilled only while they travel. It's actually 50% of the pleasure of travel and that's because they're in a foreign country and nobody will find out, so they'll have some beautiful moments to cherish for the rest of their lives.
The problem is with the modern society shaming only women for such acts and praising men as being alpha (but sometimes also jerks and manwhore). The difference is that for us men it's easier as it's justified with the fact that "they're men after all, but they will mature and realize", which is BS.

I think its easier for men than women because we see men as seeing sex as lust and not love
https://www.mindbodygreen.com/0-12048/how-to-tell-if-its-love-or-just-lust.html
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...01108/lust-vs-love-do-you-know-the-difference
(there are many sites on this topic)
as for women, i have no clue if its an even split or not, but the trend here in australia is for women to enjoy yourselves, not marry early but settle down in their late twenties.
as for the article.........well there are many fish in the sea is the old saying.............in my time up to my sons time the majority I men I knew would not bother with women like that

 

[davef]

I'm not sure if I'm right here but seeing old portraits, paintings, and pictures/clips of actresses, I'm amazed at how beautiful the women shown in these media are (beautiful as in a woman who appears in your dreams) in comparison to what we have today with all the Botox, implants, and women making themselves as "sexy" as possible (which to me isn't attractive at all, it looks dumb). Extensive plastic surgery is the way to be if you want to resemble a denizen walking the sandy streets of Mos Eisley

 

[bicicleur 2]

True to some extent, but there are societal norms which actually change over time which influence how you interpret what you see with your eyes.

Before actors are hired, for example, producers sometimes hire marketing companies to do some testing to see which actor or actress is more appealing. The same thing happens when certain commercials are made. There are differences by sex too. What a woman thinks is beautiful in terms of female beauty may not be the same as what a man thinks, even if they're in the same culture.

I think there is one universal sign of beauty :
the person has to look healthy and strong

cultural influences change over time
but signs of wealth and succes also appear attractive

in the middle ages fat ladies were seen as a sign of wealth
a few centuries ago, it were pale ladies, that didn't have to work on the fields in the sun
now for some reason, some celebrities, movie stars and soccer players often get overwhelmed by female attention

 

[bicicleur 2]

You don't mean women, do you? I've been monogamous my entire life and I assure you most women are indeed like me. In my experience, if a woman "cheats" it's usually because she doesn't feel loved, even if she's wrong about that. The reasons are usually "emotional", if you will. With men it doesn't have to be for that reason. There's more of a disconnect, I'd say, between sex and love.

Men are hunters indeed, they don't need an excuse. It's part of 'being a man'.
Women occasionally hunt too, or want to be hunted, but they won't admit it and find some excuse for their behaviour. And they are more looking for attention than sex, but sex counts too if they feel deprived.

 

[cherry7]

I am old-fashioned too, that way we stay healthy. I am only interested in commitment and my head rules my heart. However we must remember that sex is a necessary factor in the continuation of the human race at this point in time. Who knows in the future what will happen but both sexes are important in the grand scheme of things

 

[Jovialis]

If the majority of women had the same attitudes about sex as men, the world would be far more overcrowded. I think women naturally have their ways partly as a means to control overpopulation.

Part of desire is the fact that the woman is not just going to give it up so easy or to just anyone. Being the male who is selected over the others also drives desire; the feeling of having exclusive sexual access.

I am old-fashioned too, that way we stay healthy. I am only interested in commitment and my head rules my heart. However we must remember that sex is a necessary factor in the continuation of the human race at this point in time. Who knows in the future what will happen but both sexes are important in the grand scheme of things

Personally, I don’t want to live in a world where sex has been eliminated as a means of reproduction.

 

[Angela]

In many old paintings, Man and Woman were depicted in such a way that by today western standard are consider over weight.
Roman noses, were also exaggerated in Statues or Coins, as an indication of Power, and Intelligence.
George Washington Painting with a belly represented an healthy, wealthy and respected Leader.
- Edited -
Even Cleopatra’s nose it’s not realistic imo.

The Berlin Cleopatra, a Roman bust of Cleopatra VII wearing a royal diadem, mid-1st century BC (i.e. around the time of her visits to Rome in 46-44 BC), discovered in a villa along the Via Appia; it is now located in the Altes Museum.

- Coin of Cleopatra -

——————————-

Empress Faustina Jr, Marcus Aurelius’ Wife. Look at the nose.
- This coin is mine - [emoji4]

All this images have in common a big nose with a small hook at the tip.

All what images? You're picking out one statue which happens to have a nose which matches that of Cleopatra's, if the likeness is accurate.

Just google Roman era busts or classical era busts. See, for example, Julius:

Marcus Agrippa, who was famously not of patrician birth:

Pompey:

You have to know the era when the piece of art was created. In some periods, the art is very stylized, with everyone looking approximately the same. In others, the art is more realistic. In the above pictures, the depictions appear very realistic. In others, there's idealization going on, perhaps, or stylistic conventions. That's usually from earlier periods.

Then there's the fact that other than in the case of, say, political figures, art sometimes celebrates people whom the artists consider beautiful. Antinous is the famous example. He was considered the most beautiful man of the time.

I also hardly think they're putting bigger noses on statues necessarily to show power in a political figure. Antinous was the catamite of the Emperor Hadrian.

Also, the women depicted didn't have button, upturned noses, either. Here is a Greek statue of the goddess Flora:

Vibia Sabina:

If you wish to continue the discussion, the following threads might be more appropriate.

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/30832-Recognizing-ethnicity-by-the-nose?highlight=noses

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threa...sical-phenotype?highlight=classical+phenotype

 

[Salento]

All what images? You're picking out one statue which happens to have a nose which matches that of Cleopatra's, if the likeness is accurate.

Just google Roman era busts or classical era busts. See, for example, Julius:

Marcus Agrippa, who was famously not of patrician birth:

Pompey:

You have to know the era when the piece of art was created. In some periods, the art is very stylized, with everyone looking approximately the same. In others, the art is more realistic. In the above pictures, the depictions appear very realistic. In others, there's idealization going on, perhaps, or stylistic conventions. That's usually from earlier periods.

Then there's the fact that other than in the case of, say, political figures, art sometimes celebrates people whom the artists consider beautiful. Antinous is the famous example. He was considered the most beautiful man of the time.

I also hardly think they're putting bigger noses on statues necessarily to show power in a political figure. Antinous was the catamite of the Emperor Hadrian.

Also, the women depicted didn't have button, upturned noses, either. Here is a Greek statue of the goddess Flora:

Vibia Sabina:

If you wish to continue the discussion, the following threads might be more appropriate.

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/30832-Recognizing-ethnicity-by-the-nose?highlight=noses

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threa...sical-phenotype?highlight=classical+phenotype

Let the Members to judge for themselves. I don’t think that I’m wrong. [emoji846]

 

[Angela]

Let the Members to judge for themselves. I don’t think that I’m wrong. [emoji846]

Facts are facts. All classical era statues did not depict people with noses with a "hook" at the tip. You cherry picked one to make whatever deeper point you're trying to make, which, in fact, eludes me. You get to have your own opinions. You don't get to have your own facts.

If you mean that larger noses on men suggest more "masculinity", "power", "strength of character", then I would agree in my own case. It may also be a cultural view in some areas, since that's also an old wives tale my nonna told me. She also told me that a church is nothing without a nice campanile. Sort of related ideas.

 

[Salento]

Facts are facts. All classical era statues did not depict people with noses with a "hook" at the tip. You cherry picked one to make whatever deeper point you're trying to make, which, in fact, eludes me. You get to have your own opinions. You don't get to have your own facts.

If you mean that larger noses on men suggest more "masculinity", "power", "strength of character", then I would agree in my own case. It may also be a cultural view in some areas, since that's also an old wives tale my nonna told me. She also told me that a church is nothing without a nice campanile. Sort of related ideas.

You’re right. I purposely omitted those tales. All Nonne Rules!

 

[Angela]

Men are hunters indeed, they don't need an excuse. It's part of 'being a man'.
Women occasionally hunt too, or want to be hunted, but they won't admit it and find some excuse for their behaviour. And they are more looking for attention than sex, but sex counts too if they feel deprived.

I see it the same way. Men and women are just different, in this as in many other ways. When men say that having an extra-marital affair, for example, is not about love, and they're in fact still in love with their wives, I believe them. A neighbor of mine was in a marriage like that. She did everything she could to keep him faithful, from what I could see, even, as she got older, having implants, a tummy tuck, constantly at the gym, spending a fortune on grooming etc. She certainly maintained her looks, but he was still unfaithful. When she finally had enough and filed for divorce, he was distraught, asking me to speak to her, to try to dissuade her. It just didn't and doesn't make any sense to me. Even if you want to behave this way, why would you hurt someone you "love" over and over again.

I also agree that women sometimes give sex in order to get attention, rather than out of any "drive" per se. The most promiscuous woman I ever met told me she doesn't even like it. I'm sure that would shock her partners.

There's also the fact that a good number of sexually promiscuous women are the victims of sexual abuse. Prostitutes often have such a history, for example.

I think the article to which Sile linked is interesting, however. Apparently, "successful" intimacy between people can release oxycodone, which causes bonding. The more "good" sex, the more intense the bond in every way. So, for both men and women, but I think more so for women, what may even start out as more "casual" sex, can become much more. You really can become "addicted" to another human being in that way. Women should be wary of giving into pressure on college campuses or anywhere else in order to "have a boyfriend".

 

[Nik]

Nik, I don't know what to tell you. I don't know any women like that, young or old, although I'm sure there are some. In my experience, a good number of women don't even much like sex, even young ones. Trust me, women tell each other that stuff, even if they would never tell a man, and especially not a man they're hoping to entice into a long term relationship. Women have even perfected "faking it" for decades.

Even women who like it a lot would not necessarily consider traveling so they can have anonymous sex without social repercussions, even leaving aside any moral training. I'm sure there are some, but ALL, or even the majority? I doubt it. Christ, there aren't that many men who even appeal, then think about diseases, and the embarrassment the next morning when you want to get rid of him. Or, if it's someone whom you know, a colleague or neighbor, think of the incredible mess you'd be making. Absolutely not. Plus, to be honest, I've never encountered a man as sexually attractive as my own husband. Why go out for hamburger when you have steak at home?

Well, if Raoul Bova, or Antonio Cupo, or Carmine Signorelli, or Luca Calvani, or Daniele Pecci came around?
Actually, I'm just kidding. It has to be the whole package: looks, intellect, character, sense of humor etc.

Actually women don't share much with each other because they don't trust each other, and they're right about that. Why would they give away such "embarrassing" information that someone can use against you in the future or to get judged for simply accepting a biological need.

They'd never tell a man indeed, but I was always a friend that speaks openly about these topics and admit everything to their face. Only then almost everyone that is close enough to me or other friends opens up.

I get what you're saying about not liking sex and I've noticed that mainly in women that lost their virginity after marriage and had kids immediately, but I also know maaany cases that it's women from that category that go nuts in their 30s and 40s because of their midlife crisis for having missed out on things like special feelings, emotions, adventure, etc.

But with each other? Yeah of course, it's all what you said. And you can't fake a real orgasm because no women would make herself look ridiculous/stupid/mental and have the entire body move like they're possessed just to make their man feel better. The fake ones are too perfect and "sexy".

Again from my experience and I believe this to be true, when women are the majority in a society like Russia for instance they're more "easy" but in the same time they play the princess and perfect wife material, whereas Swedish girls don't even care to play any games or impress you with a fake personality and character traits.

 

[Angela]

Actually women don't share much with each other because they don't trust each other, and they're right about that. Why would they give away such "embarrassing" information that someone can use against you in the future or to get judged for simply accepting a biological need.

They'd never tell a man indeed, but I was always a friend that speaks openly about these topics and admit everything to their face. Only then almost everyone that is close enough to me or other friends opens up.

I get what you're saying about not liking sex and I've noticed that mainly in women that lost their virginity after marriage and had kids immediately, but I also know maaany cases that it's women from that category that go nuts in their 30s and 40s because of their midlife crisis for having missed out on things like special feelings, emotions, adventure, etc.

But with each other? Yeah of course, it's all what you said. And you can't fake a real orgasm because no women would make herself look ridiculous/stupid/mental and have the entire body move like they're possessed just to make their man feel better. The fake ones are too perfect and "sexy".

Again from my experience and I believe this to be true, when women are the majority in a society like Russia for instance they're more "easy" but in the same time they play the princess and perfect wife material, whereas Swedish girls don't even care to play any games or impress you with a fake personality and character traits.

Yes, of course, Nik, you know women better than I do. I've only been one all my life, and have had very close women friends all my life as well. Yet, women have told you confidences that they wouldn't tell another woman, even a very close personal friend. Please....

Did it ever occur to you that only a certain kind of woman is going to tell some man all her sexual secrets? I don't know a single woman who would allow this kind of prying into her private sexual life. You think some even half way traditional woman is going to engage with you in that way? If some man had ever pestered me like that to talk about my private sexual life I'd sock him in the face and call security. Then I'd tell my boyfriend/husband, who would probably beat him to a pulp. Nowadays, I'd slap him with a sexual harassment suit. This is the kind of stuff Harvey Weinstein did, although he did a lot worse. Still, it's gross.

Either they're very promiscuous girls/women, who are still a minority, or, because you were pestering them they told you wild tales of sexual derring do, the way a woman would talk to a man on a paid sex phone line. Those women, btw, are usually completely bored during work hours, filing their nails, making up grocery lists etc. Men can be such fools sometimes.

Sorry, I wouldn't take anything women like this said seriously.

 

[Salento]

Yes, of course, Nik, you know women better than I do. I've only been one all my life, and have had very close women friends all my life as well. Yet, women have told you confidences that they wouldn't tell another woman, even a very close personal friend. Please....

Did it ever occur to you that only a certain kind of woman is going to tell some man all her sexual secrets? I don't know a single woman who would allow this kind of prying into her private sexual life. You think some even half way traditional woman is going to engage with you in that way? If some man had ever pestered me like that to talk about my private sexual life I'd sock him in the face and call security. Then I'd tell my boyfriend/husband, who would probably beat him to a pulp. Nowadays, I'd slap him with a sexual harassment suit. This is the kind of stuff Harvey Weinstein did, although he did a lot worse. Still, it's gross.

Either they're very promiscuous girls/women, who are still a minority, or, because you were pestering them they told you wild tales of sexual derring do, the way a woman would talk to a man on a paid sex phone line. Those women, btw, are usually completely bored during work hours, filing their nails, making up grocery lists etc. Men can be such fools sometimes.

Sorry, I wouldn't take anything women like this said seriously.

Deleted ( pressed wrong button )

 

[Salento]

If a man believes that his “goal” about a woman has been reach, it’s usually the other way around. It was her “goal” all along. She’s the Conqueror. She allows it. Men are a the Women’s mercy.
We pretend that we’re cool, and show-off. We are delusional in this matter.
- Not me obviously ! -

 

[Nik]

Yes, of course, Nik, you know women better than I do. I've only been one all my life, and have had very close women friends all my life as well. Yet, women have told you confidences that they wouldn't tell another woman, even a very close personal friend. Please....

Did it ever occur to you that only a certain kind of woman is going to tell some man all her sexual secrets? I don't know a single woman who would allow this kind of prying into her private sexual life. You think some even half way traditional woman is going to engage with you in that way? If some man had ever pestered me like that to talk about my private sexual life I'd sock him in the face and call security. Then I'd tell my boyfriend/husband, who would probably beat him to a pulp. Nowadays, I'd slap him with a sexual harassment suit. This is the kind of stuff Harvey Weinstein did, although he did a lot worse. Still, it's gross.

Either they're very promiscuous girls/women, who are still a minority, or, because you were pestering them they told you wild tales of sexual derring do, the way a woman would talk to a man on a paid sex phone line. Those women, btw, are usually completely bored during work hours, filing their nails, making up grocery lists etc. Men can be such fools sometimes.

Sorry, I wouldn't take anything women like this said seriously.

An entire post where you're insulting my intelligence, morals, and judging people you don't even know. You can do better than that.

This is not a competition of who knows women better. You could reason that you fall into a specific category of women and so do your friends, but don't think you're morally superior to the ones I'm talking about and come up with bs like they're completely bored, filling their nails, etc. You heard something new so treat it that way instead of playing the 'I know it all'. Am I right here, or infraction o'clock is approaching?

Then this talk about sexual harassment is even weirder. Again, jumping from an assumption to another when you could just ask me and I'd tell you the exact situation. I hate dates and the idea of having to impress a woman, so imagine me being accused of sexual harassment when I'm usually so uninterested and bored that women say "what's the matter with this guy. how come he hasn't hit on us yet or not even shown interest?".

Also, I wouldn't make assumptions on conversations and I had with hookers, strippers, or any type of immoral women I could have met. When I hear the same things from women who are rare and way above average on the moral scale, then I'd think that there's a pattern and reality in it and it makes sense. We are all animals and sex makes us feel good/crazy. If it doesn't, then you have a problem.