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Dutch with mostly Scandinavian DNA

This is possible for Northern Dutch.
 
Ahh that makes sense. This does explain the heavy English/Scottish/Irish ancestry estimates via my DNA tests and why I felt the Scandinavian aspect of my background was overstated.

Would Ostfriesland be considered "Northern Dutch" and/or heavily Scandinavian? I know they emigrated as German nationals. Still have distant relatives over in Ostfriesland (Emden & Leer) and Schleswig-Holstein. Some did arrive in the US around 1951-52. I also have fairly recent Danish, Norwegian and additional recent German ancestry from Windheim near the River Weser, Uelzen and Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania. It does appear the DNA services have difficulty in sorting out the differences but then again, I'm a mix of all the above, so...
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chauci
matty74 said:
Ahh that makes sense. This does explain the heavy English/Scottish/Irish ancestry estimates via my DNA tests and why I felt the Scandinavian aspect of my background was overstated.

Would Ostfriesland be considered "Northern Dutch" and/or heavily Scandinavian? I know they emigrated as German nationals. Still have distant relatives over in Ostfriesland (Emden & Leer) and Schleswig-Holstein. Some did arrive in the US around 1951-52. I also have fairly recent Danish, Norwegian and additional recent German ancestry from Windheim near the River Weser, Uelzen and Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania. It does appear the DNA services have difficulty in sorting out the differences but then again, I'm a mix of all the above, so...
Click to expand...
Ost-Friesland had a certain depopulation in the fourth century too but way les than on the West Frisian side. Ost-Friesland was Chauci territory. Those Chauci expanded also to the North Dutch territory, to nearby Groningen and Drenthe. The Chauci became part of the Saxons. As such complete comparable with early Anglo-Saxon samples. Indeed related to the Jastorf culture.

The area Emden and Leer was deeply influenced by the Dutch culture, until the nineteenth century the language of the church was in certain parts Dutch. Emden was also a refuge post in the sixteenth century for all kind of dissenters....


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It also depends which test you take.

23andMe is getting better at removing Skandinavian (up to 25% to below 10%) over the years... putting our Dutch dna into their "French & German" category.


LivingDNA will give you a lot of British. (50+% in my case)
 
I also get often Scandic results. This is IMO the explanation.

I think Davidski/Eurogenes has made this clear. Recently he showed that there is some kind of continuity in the Nordic genetic profile between LN-BA and now. My family (and especially my mother and I) belong to that cluster.


See the (added) Nordic Bronze Age PCA of Davidski (I'm Finn):
6bp4o7elv.png



The Nordic LNBA cluster is basically a blend between Neolithic Funnelbeaker (TRB, an Ertebølle/ Neolithic farmer mix) and the highly Steppe Single Grave Culture (SGC)/ NW Bell Beaker.
The SGC and the BB hotspots are mainly found in the North Dutch area and are overlapping. Than you speak about NW Dutch (above Amsterdam, from the Olalde samples), the Veluwe in the middle of NE Dutch, and Drenthe in the outmost NE Dutch. That are the area's were the SGC and the BB flourished. And these were also the only places were the TRB existed (TRB=NE Dutch)!


The LNBA genetic of the North Dutch is therefore close to the Scandic one, my family fits even nowadays in the Nordic Bronze Age (LNBA) corner.


For the South Dutch is this not so much the case. North Dutch are more LNBA Nordic so TRB/SGC/BB mixtures. You can see it even in the SNP's that have an effect on the phenotype. The North Dutch are taller (Steppe influence) and lighter featured (TRB influence). In depth research (Oskar Lao e.a. 2013 and Abdel Abdellaoui e.a. 2013) has shown that this North (above the Rhine) and South (below the Rhine) difference is the only real significant one in the Dutch context.

So in the end North Dutch are much more likely to cluster with Scandinavian than South Dutch.
 
The Dutch have had lots of connections to Scandinavia, historically. For instance, the city of Gothenburg in Sweden was founded and laid out by Dutch city planners and legislators. For a period of time they even spoke Dutch there.

Adding to that, I know that Norway has had lots of connections to the Netherlands through the timber-trade.
I wouldn't be able to tell you whether it had a significant effect on the overall Dutch DNA, but historically there was even a large wave of immigration of Norwegian peoples to the Netherlands in the 17th and 18th century. Most of the people that migrated came from coastal cities in Norway that were connected to the Dutch shipbuilding-industry. Lots of them moved to Amsterdam, and apparently the population of Norwegians living in Amsterdam was at one point similar in size to the amount of Norwegians living in Bergen (Norway's capital city at the time).
There is also the Viking-era, but I have no clue how much pillaging and raiding took place in Netherlands.

I personally tend to get a very close proximity to North Dutch on several Eurogenes-calculators, even if I have no known Dutch ancestry. On some it's even closer than Norwegian or other Scandinavian populations, which is quite interesting.
 
My father is Frisian and in eurogenes k15 he scores NO (Norway). In myheritage he scores 50% scan, 30% english and 20% nw european. That result is similar to a Danish result.
In english DNA research they can't tell the difference between a Dane and an Anglo-Saxon.
 
In the Netherlands the 3 shouthern provinces are more a Myheritage mix of english, nw european. The eastern part of the netherlands is partly saxon so more scandinavian than the south but not as much as the have influenced frisian parts of friesland, groningen en noord holland. Zuid Holland, Utrecht are more a mix of the south and the north also because of more recent migrations.
 
Ost-frisian is the old chauci land. And chauci=saxon. Ost frisian was party deserted in 450-..., they set sail to England and The Netherland. Maybe juts and angles filled up the gap the left behind.
 
Jana said:
What is the link between Scandinavia and the Netherlands?
Click to expand...

Northern Netherlands were settled by many migrants from Scandinavia:

jenh2hstc3v3c.png
 
ok.jpg

Seven years later, the tests can’t be fooled anymore when it comes to Scandinavian. I’m Dutch, and you can tell the algorithm still has some noise in it, though of course you can always come up with a nice story.


...the earlier test correctly identified Friesland and the north of the Netherlands as the regions in the Netherlands where most of my ancestors came from

 
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