Do Italians look more like Spaniards/Portuguese, or Greeks?

[Wilhelm]

Obviously this is a terrible thing for many Spaniards, although not all are that of xenophobes. Some of my compatriots dread the idea of ?€‹?€‹comun genetic with North Africa (even in small percentage). Sorry for you if you are so closed minded, but genetics does not deceive.

View attachment 4938

In Spain there have been many invasions of peoples from other places, but the idea that only Europeans left genetic mark, while non-Europeans left without not footprint is laughable. I'm sure many Europeans will laugh as I laugh. Reveals a complex of inferiority.

According to the study of Cruciani et al. 2004 the frequency of E-M81 in Southern Spaniards is 1.6% while in France is 3.6%

 

[Wilhelm]

In the last Dodecad K=12 admixture run, the spaniards are more european than Dutch, French or Hungarians, here is the list ranking of European score :

1. Lithuanian_D 99.1
2. French_Basque 98.5
3. Belorussian 97.1
4. Polish_D 95.8
5. Norwegian_D 92.8
6. Swedish_D 92.7
7. Mixed_Slav_D 92.1
8. Orcadian 92
9. German_D 91.7
10. British_Isles_D 91.5
11. French_D 91.3
12. Irish_D 91.1
13. Finnish_D 91
14. British_D 90.9
15. CEU 90.8
16. Spaniards 90.8
17. Dutch_D 89.9
18. French 89.9
19. Russian_D 89.7
20. Hungarians 88.8
21. Mixed_Germanic_D 88.2
22. Russian 86.7
23. North_Italian 86.1
24. Sardinian 85.8
25. Portuguese_D 84.9
26. N_Italian_D 83.9
27. Balkans_D 83.8
28. Tuscan 77.3
29. C_Italian_D 69.4
30. Greek_D 68.5
31. Sicilian_D 63.4
32. S_Italian_Sicilian_D 62.5
33. S_Italian_D 61.9
34. Ashkenazy_Jews 57.7
35. Ashkenazi_D 57.1
36. Sephardic_Jews 54.6
37. Morocco_Jews 49.9
38. Cypriots 47.6
39. Turkish 40.9

 

[Cambrius (The Red)]

If you do not believe in genetics, in particular Y-DNA (only because the results are not what you expected) what do you do in this forum where genetics is accepted as a universal science? It's ridiculous what you're doing.

What do you think autosomal DNA research is? It's GENETICS! You are the one who is ignoring science.

 

[Ferreira]

Do not be stupid. I can get you the original studies (Wiki only resume them), but I preferred to get the summary of Wiki as I see you're a bit close-minded.

Quetion again: if you don't believe in Y-DNA genetics whay are you in this forum??? hAHAHA.

 

[Wilhelm]

Do not be stupid. I can get you the original studies (Wiki only resume them), but I preferred to get the summary of Wiki as I see you're a bit close-minded.

Quetion again: if you don't believe in Y-DNA genetics whay are you in this forum??? hAHAHA.

I repeat : Some studies show France having more E-M81 than Spain. Second : y-DNA does not represent your ancestry, only one direct line, since it's only transmitted from your father. Autosomal-dna is what can determine admixture. See my list above.

 

[Ferreira]

In that study, which i don't know, they deny haplogroup E, subclade E-M81 in Spain? Can you give me the link?

All europeans are seeing how terrible it is for some Spaniards have genetic from North Africa. Some try to deny Y-DNA!!! That's is funny because we are in a genetic forum!!!

 

[Ferreira]

I don't know any study with more E-M81 in France than in Spain, that's ridicolous. Even in your link, they recognize so much as 20% in Valle del pas (Cantabria). Unbeateble in Europe.

 

[Wilhelm]

In that study, which i don't know, they deny haplogroup E, subclade E-M81 in Spain? Can you give me the link?

All europeans are seeing how terrible it is for some Spaniards have genetic from North Africa. Some try to deny Y-DNA!!! That's is funny because we are in a genetic forum!!!

Stop being sucha an immature idiot. The E-M81 is found in all Europe. Even in Finland it has been found. Second : the y-DNA doesn't represent your ancestry, only one direct line. For the whole ancestral composition they use autosomal markers (SNP's).

 

[Ferreira]

We get the insults. When you run out of arguments come the insults. Sorry for you. E-M81 is also unkown at north of Spain. In France is very limited overall, only in Paris region is present at small percentage.



Sorry for you, even in your chart (very limited samples), win Spain by far:

 

[Cambrius (The Red)]

Do not be stupid. I can get you the original studies (Wiki only resume them), but I preferred to get the summary of Wiki as I see you're a bit close-minded.

Quetion again: if you don't believe in Y-DNA genetics whay are you in this forum??? hAHAHA.

Once again for the the person who has trouble understanding certain things: Y-DNA is used by geneticists only to determine ancient population migrations impacts. Y-DNA does not have to do with FULL ancestry. Autosomal DNA is what determines FULL ANCESTRY. The figures that Wilhelm posted reflect full ancestry and phenotype - the genetic ancestry bottom line.

p.s. it should also be mentioned that Spaniards and Portuguese also test over 60% Atlantic.

 

[Cambrius (The Red)]

You are a childish amateur, Mex. Do you think this forum is filled with dolts?

 

[Wilhelm]

We get the insults. Sorry for you. E-M81 is also unkown at north of Spain. In France is very limited overall, only in Paris region is present at small percentage.

View attachment 4940

Sorry for you, even in your chart (very limited samples), win Spain by far:

View attachment 4941

You can see on the table : French have 3.6 % and Southern Spaniards (supposedly more moorish) : 1.6 %

 

[Cambrius (The Red)]

I don't know any study with more E-M81 in France than in Spain, that's ridicolous. Even in your link, they recognize so much as 20% in Valle del pas (Cantabria). Unbeateble in Europe.

That 20% comes from the Pasiegos region and the frequencies have been attributed to Mesolithic migrations. Anything that old has no effect at all on phenotype.

 

[Cambrius (The Red)]

You can see on the table : French have 3.6 % and Southern Spaniards (supposedly more moorish) : 1.6 %

I believe it has even been found in Brittany and an area of Wales at higher levels.

 

[Ferreira]

You can see on the table : French have 3.6 % and Southern Spaniards (supposedly more moorish) : 1.6 %

With a bigger sample:
In Europe, E-M81 is found everywhere but mostly in the Iberian Peninsula, where unlike in the rest of Europe[Note 6] it is more common than E-M78, with an average frequency of 4-5.6%. Its frequencies are higher in the western half of the peninsula with frequencies reaching 8% in Extremadura and South Portugal, 9% in Galicia, 10% in Western Andalusia and Northwest Castile and 9% to 17% in Cantabria.[18][29][30][31][32] The highest frequencies of this clade found so far in Europe were observed in the Pasiegos from Cantabria, ranging from 18% (8/45)[32] to 41% (23/56).[2] An average frequency of 8.28% (54/652) has also been reported in the Spanish Canary Islands with frequencies over 10% in the three largest islands of Tenerife (10.68%), Gran Canaria (11.54%) and Fuerteventura (13.33%).[33]

 

[Wilhelm]

If we go by autosomal studies (whole ancestry) this is what they say :

"European wide study including Spaniards states: No significant correlation is apparent between North African admixture and geography. Genetic exchanges across the Mediterranean Sea, and especially in its western-most part where the geographic distance between continents is smallest (Spain), seem to have been limited or very limited, establishing the North African contribution at between 2.5% and 3.4%. "
Dupanloup, I. (2004). "Estimating the Impact of Prehistoric Admixture on the Genome of Europeans". Molecular Biology and Evolution 21 (7): 1361. doi:10.1093/molbev/msh135. PMID 15044595.

Haplogroup composition of the ancient Iberians was very similar to that found in modern Iberian Peninsula populations, suggesting a long-term genetic continuity since pre-Roman times [6] [7] [8].


Wade, Nicholas (August 13, 2008). "The Genetic Map of Europe". The New York Times. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/13/science/13visual.html. Retrieved October 17, 2009.

"TA phylogenetic tree constructed on the basis of the high-resolution data deriving from other populations revealed the clustering of Macedonians together with other Balkan populations (Greeks, Croats, and Romanians) and Sardinians, close to another "European" cluster consisting of the Italian, French, Danish, Polish and Spanish populations. The included African populations grouped on the opposite side of the tree."

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/118742265/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

Results: In this study we have sampled over 800 unrelated individuals from the population of Spain,
and have genotyped them with a genome-wide coverage. We have carried out linkage
disequilibrium, haplotype, population structure and copy-number variation (CNV) analyses, and
have compared these estimates of the Spanish population with existing data from similar efforts.
Conclusions: In general, the Spanish population is similar to the Western and Northern Europeans,
but has a more diverse haplotypic structure. Moreover, the Spanish population is also largely
homogeneous within itself, although patterns of micro-structure may be able to predict locations of
origin from distant regions.

http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1471-2164-11-326.pdf

 

[Ferreira]

If you don't like genetic Y-DNA I suggest not participate in these scientific forums.

Especially since you're not going to be able to stop the truth from coming out. If you are racist, then you better not participate in a scientific forum saying 4 nonsense.

 

[Cambrius (The Red)]

With a bigger sample:
In Europe, E-M81 is found everywhere but mostly in the Iberian Peninsula, where unlike in the rest of Europe[Note 6] it is more common than E-M78, with an average frequency of 4-5.6%. Its frequencies are higher in the western half of the peninsula with frequencies reaching 8% in Extremadura and South Portugal, 9% in Galicia, 10% in Western Andalusia and Northwest Castile and 9% to 17% in Cantabria.[18][29][30][31][32] The highest frequencies of this clade found so far in Europe were observed in the Pasiegos from Cantabria, ranging from 18% (8/45)[32] to 41% (23/56).[2] An average frequency of 8.28% (54/652) has also been reported in the Spanish Canary Islands with frequencies over 10% in the three largest islands of Tenerife (10.68%), Gran Canaria (11.54%) and Fuerteventura (13.33%).[33]

Excuse me, but are you part parrot? Can't you read?

 

[Wilhelm]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]PCA autosomal plots. See where are Spaniards and where are Moroccans :


[FONT=&quot] http://imageshack.us/m/845/8067/bga1.png[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]http://imageshack.us/m/845/8067/bga1.png[/FONT]

 

[Wilhelm]

If you don't like genetic Y-DNA I suggest not participate in these scientific forums.

Especially since you're not going to be able to stop the truth from coming out. If you are racist, then you better not participate in a scientific forum saying 4 nonsense.

This is not the y-dna section I remind you.