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Genomes from Late Iron Age Britain - 57 burials from Durotrigian sites in Dorset

Stefano said:
The G25 coordinates were posted by Ajeje on Apricity:
Durotrigian:LTH01,0.137726,0.132019,0.066373,0.03876,0.041854,0.018128,-0.000235,-0.004384,0.00409,0.014397,-0.012991,0.008243,-0.014717,-0.007156,0.017644,0.011668,-0.007953,-0.004181,0.002263,-0.001751,0.004866,0.005935,-0.006286,0.001807,0
Durotrigian:MDN01,0.127482,0.126941,0.059208,0.046835,0.03693,0.011435,0.00188,0.007846,0.007567,0.00328,-0.01429,0.002098,-0.016353,-0.017616,0.022122,0.013657,-0.001043,0.000633,0.007668,0.006253,-0.001622,0.006677,-0.005546,0.001084,-0.007903
Durotrigian:WBK01,0.127482,0.136081,0.067882,0.046512,0.0397,0.019243,-0.000235,0.006461,0.009408,0.001093,-0.001299,0.002398,-0.014717,-0.023671,0.021987,0.013126,-0.009388,0.00228,-0.001131,0.006003,0.012603,-0.006183,0.003328,0.01217,0.001197
Durotrigian:WBK02,0.135449,0.147252,0.058077,0.028101,0.050779,0.01004,-0.002115,-0.003231,0.02127,0.024784,-0.010555,0.014987,-0.015609,-0.016652,0.007465,0.005171,-0.000522,0.002914,0.003268,-0.002376,0.002246,0.006677,0.001602,0.000723,-0.001557
Durotrigian:WBK03,0.12862,0.144205,0.056945,0.047158,0.041238,0.011156,0.00141,0.002077,0.001023,0.015308,-0.008119,0.003597,-0.019921,-0.010459,0.017236,0.001193,-0.007693,-0.003167,0.004274,-0.002751,0.00549,-0.000989,0.000493,0.003374,-0.002515
Durotrigian:WBK04,0.124067,0.133034,0.056191,0.044897,0.02462,0.016455,0.004935,0.003231,0.006749,0.007836,0.004222,0.005095,-0.013231,-0.016377,0.016151,0.016176,0.008475,-0.002787,-0.008799,0.001251,-0.000499,0.004946,-0.003574,0.008435,0.017962
Durotrigian:WBK05,0.124067,0.14319,0.05506,0.042959,0.042469,0.018686,0,-0.000692,0.012067,0.004556,-0.005846,0.008992,-0.013825,-0.009358,0.019679,0.009149,-0.001434,0.000127,0.003394,0.003126,0.014474,0.004699,-0.002711,0.006266,0.001796
Durotrigian:WBK06,0.122929,0.132019,0.04978,0.042636,0.040931,0.01757,-0.00094,0.004846,0.008385,0.005285,-0.003085,0.015286,-0.015163,-0.013762,0.02253,0.016706,-0.003912,0.006334,0.006913,0.001376,0.005989,-0.000371,-0.001479,0.007471,0.003473
Durotrigian:WBK07,0.136588,0.14319,0.060339,0.054264,0.039392,0.014781,0.00235,0.004154,0.005113,0.007836,-0.002761,0.005545,-0.010258,-0.014863,0.020494,0.010209,-0.0103,0.005828,-0.002388,0.00025,0.00262,0.00643,0.002835,0.007591,0.000479
Durotrigian:WBK08,0.135449,0.13405,0.060716,0.033915,0.041546,0.016455,0.004935,0.001615,0.004704,0.017495,-0.004222,0.001049,-0.011447,-0.013487,0.010722,-0.003845,-0.016428,0.007981,0.004651,-0.003252,-0.000499,0.004699,0.000739,0.004097,0.00012
Durotrigian:WBK09,0.127482,0.126941,0.060716,0.049742,0.040007,0.024821,0.009635,-0.000692,0.001227,-0.004738,-0.00747,0.004496,-0.012933,-0.023671,0.021037,0.006629,-0.00013,-0.001774,0.00176,0.005753,0.008859,0.003215,0.001725,0.006748,-0.003113
Durotrigian:WBK10,0.124067,0.14319,0.060716,0.039406,0.053241,0.020917,0.00235,-0.003,0.016157,0.027882,-0.007145,0.004196,-0.019772,-0.033029,0.013843,0.019623,0.012908,0.004181,-0.004399,0.000875,-0.002995,-0.004328,0.003328,0.001687,-0.005987
Durotrigian:WBK11,0.126344,0.137096,0.060339,0.039406,0.047086,0.016455,0.00235,0.004846,0.011862,0.021322,-0.00341,0.007493,-0.015461,-0.013762,0.011265,0.007955,0.007562,0.006461,0.004148,0.009379,0.005865,0.004328,0.001109,0.01217,0
Durotrigian:WBK12,0.126344,0.128972,0.058077,0.045543,0.043085,0.013108,-0.00423,0.00923,0.010226,0.011845,-0.010393,0.010641,-0.016799,-0.019267,0.013843,0.014452,-0.005867,0.004814,-0.001508,0.010005,0.009608,-0.000618,0,0.004458,-0.000239
Durotrigian:WBK13,0.129758,0.138112,0.05506,0.04199,0.0397,0.007251,-0.001645,0.005077,0.005727,0.012939,-0.006658,0.012289,-0.016353,-0.010735,0.018051,-0.001989,0.00013,0.005194,0.001383,-0.001,0.008235,0.000989,0.001479,0.008676,-0.002994
Durotrigian:WBK14,0.129758,0.13405,0.056191,0.05814,0.038469,0.009761,0.006345,0.010615,0.00409,-0.00164,-0.010718,0.009442,-0.017393,-0.021332,0.026465,0.02148,0.009518,0.001647,0.000251,0.006128,0.001622,-0.000742,0.007641,0.019159,0.000359
Durotrigian:WBK15,0.135449,0.13405,0.064111,0.044897,0.047086,0.01255,0.00282,0.006692,0.011658,0.003645,-0.006658,0.007493,-0.019475,-0.012111,0.019137,0.007425,-0.003129,-0.002787,0.008925,0.006628,0.008859,0.000495,-0.003081,0.004579,0.005029
Durotrigian:WBK16,0.12862,0.144205,0.059208,0.052649,0.04924,0.01757,0.00517,0.006231,0.016362,0.017859,0.004709,0.007793,-0.019772,-0.013212,0.009636,0.007027,0.001434,-0.00038,0.00817,0.009254,0.009358,0.006801,-0.002835,0.003253,0.001796
Durotrigian:WBK17,0.12862,0.141159,0.057322,0.054264,0.045855,0.017012,0.00094,0.008077,0.001432,0.001276,-0.00406,0.013788,-0.020069,-0.01156,0.025244,0.004375,-0.002738,0.003421,-0.005656,0.008504,0.001497,0.002102,0.002095,0.005181,-0.002874
Durotrigian:WBK18,0.132035,0.126941,0.060339,0.048127,0.043393,0.01255,0.00047,0.004846,0.007567,0.007472,-0.01153,0.012289,-0.017839,-0.021744,0.021037,0.02559,0.005215,0.001647,-0.002891,0.001751,0.01123,-0.003091,0.001356,0.016749,0.000239
Durotrigian:WBK19,0.135449,0.139128,0.059962,0.038437,0.047701,0.017291,0.00705,0.002308,0.013908,0.009659,-0.002111,0.005095,-0.018731,-0.007569,0.014251,0.000398,-0.004563,0.000633,0.004651,0.002251,0.005615,-0.000247,-0.006039,0.005663,0.006586
Durotrigian:WBK20,0.127482,0.137096,0.062979,0.044897,0.043085,0.016176,0,-0.003923,0.012476,0.014761,-0.005034,0.005695,-0.012339,-0.011147,0.0095,0.000398,-0.002086,0.00114,-0.002388,0.006128,0.006364,-0.000618,-0.004067,-0.003735,0.005269
Durotrigian:WBK21,0.126344,0.137096,0.054305,0.043282,0.029544,0.013945,0.004935,0.009692,0.012885,0.010387,-0.00747,0.004946,-0.01219,0,0.018865,0.001989,-0.027772,0.00228,-0.005531,-0.002126,0.008235,0.002349,-0.008134,0.007832,0.000838
Durotrigian:WBK22,0.132035,0.132019,0.059585,0.042959,0.0437,0.014781,0.00235,0.010153,0.011453,0.008565,-0.010555,0.003897,-0.010406,-0.012386,0.022394,0.019623,0.009779,-0.004814,0.003142,0.003627,0.010482,-0.004328,-0.007641,0.008435,-0.000718
Durotrigian:WBK23,0.126344,0.149283,0.056191,0.044897,0.042777,0.015897,-0.0047,0.006923,0.012476,0.009659,-0.000812,0.004646,-0.010852,-0.014038,0.012215,0.006364,-0.00326,0.00076,0,0.006753,0.002246,0.000618,0.001849,0.000241,-0.006227
Durotrigian:WBK24,0.118376,0.129988,0.062225,0.045866,0.044931,0.018965,-0.001175,0.003923,0.003272,0.001822,-0.002436,0.01094,-0.022745,-0.007707,0.019408,-0.016176,-0.011865,0.0019,0.007542,0.001751,0.009234,-0.001484,0.001109,0.001807,-0.00479
Durotrigian:WBK25,0.127482,0.13405,0.057699,0.047158,0.044008,0.024542,-0.00235,0.013384,0.017589,0.012574,-0.009419,0.01169,-0.015461,-0.015138,0.023751,0.003182,-0.024251,0.004941,0.012318,-0.001251,0.001373,0.001113,-0.007641,0.011568,-0.003233
Durotrigian:WBK26,0.136588,0.137096,0.050911,0.043928,0.043393,0.014781,-0.000705,0.005538,0.007158,0.000547,0.003085,0.005395,-0.017691,-0.013212,0.021037,-0.004375,-0.021774,0.002154,0.00088,0.002251,0,0.002844,0.002835,0.002892,-0.000718
Durotrigian:WBK27,0.117238,0.141159,0.053928,0.049742,0.061242,0.011713,0.003055,-0.009692,-0.000614,0.005832,0.010718,0.008093,-0.020961,-0.018029,0.016558,0.009812,0.017211,-0.003421,0.002137,0.01063,0.029074,0.01694,-0.002465,0.009519,0.001437
Durotrigian:WBK29,0.122929,0.129988,0.053551,0.04522,0.045547,0.012829,0.004465,0.001846,0.007976,0.01385,-0.001624,0.006894,-0.011893,-0.018304,0.019137,0.019225,0.008605,-0.004307,-0.002137,0.011255,0.007487,-0.002473,-0.005546,0.012411,-0.003712
Durotrigian:WBK30,0.126344,0.138112,0.072784,0.049742,0.050163,0.020917,0.005875,-0.000231,0.010022,0.006925,0.005684,0.000599,-0.012636,-0.009083,0.015608,-0.011933,-0.027381,0.000507,0.003645,0.001376,0.013975,-0.000371,-0.007148,0.001325,0.011017
Durotrigian:WBK31,0.132035,0.129988,0.061094,0.047481,0.039084,0.023985,0.001175,0.002538,0.004909,0.007654,-0.003735,0.001049,-0.018583,-0.018166,0.02348,0.013657,0.00691,-0.000887,-0.003645,0.012131,0.009358,0.002226,-0.000123,0.008796,0.000599
Durotrigian:WBK32,0.132035,0.128972,0.058077,0.020672,0.047393,-0.00251,0.00329,-0.004846,0.020248,0.00492,-0.008607,0.01079,-0.007433,-0.016377,0.006107,0.016971,0.006519,0.000127,-0.006536,0.004002,-0.012977,-0.00915,-0.00912,0.008194,0.005748
Durotrigian:WBK33,0.127482,0.13405,0.055437,0.040698,0.042162,0.016455,0.00188,0.003923,0.006545,0.006196,-0.002761,0.015436,-0.013528,-0.015827,0.013301,0.005304,-0.009518,-0.000887,-0.004399,0.005253,0.013102,0.012365,-0.005423,0.007712,-0.000718
Durotrigian:WBK34,0.129758,0.140143,0.052797,0.043605,0.038776,0.013666,0.010105,0.005307,0.002659,0.01057,-0.012666,0.004796,-0.016055,-0.021607,0.013572,0.023999,0.00678,-0.002154,0.001006,0.006628,0.004866,-0.00136,-0.000863,0.00735,-0.001317
Durotrigian:WBK35,0.111547,0.12491,0.069013,0.03876,0.040007,0.015618,-0.019036,0.001385,0.018816,0.002734,-0.000162,0.003747,-0.018137,-0.016102,0.017372,0.036064,0.004042,0.002027,0.004651,0.002626,0.002745,-0.003833,-0.004314,0.007109,0.002874
Durotrigian:WBK36,0.133173,0.140143,0.062225,0.049742,0.037238,0.018407,0.00282,0.006461,0.006136,0.009476,-0.001137,0.008692,-0.013974,-0.021056,0.016694,0.012861,-0.008475,-0.005321,0.002891,0.001251,0.005615,0.003215,-0.004807,0.00494,0.001078
Durotrigian:WBK39,0.122929,0.133034,0.056945,0.050388,0.051086,0.02008,0,0.001846,0.003272,-0.007836,-0.007957,0.014987,-0.01665,-0.020643,0.019001,0.008486,-0.01682,-0.009122,-0.008547,0.007003,-0.002246,0.005688,-0.003081,0.006145,0.000359
Durotrigian:WBK40,0.125205,0.141159,0.062979,0.046512,0.042469,0.020359,0.00517,0.01523,0.007976,0.010752,-0.002436,0.006145,-0.013231,-0.01968,0.022394,0.016839,0.0103,0.003674,-0.003394,0.008379,0.009234,0.008779,0.001232,-0.002289,0.001676
Durotrigian:WBK41,0.126344,0.14319,0.058831,0.038437,0.033237,0.011435,-0.000705,0.000231,0.01718,0.014397,-0.00682,0.015137,-0.015461,-0.012248,0.021037,-0.00411,-0.016168,0.010769,0.004902,-0.002126,0.000374,-0.001978,-0.003574,-0.001446,0.001796
Durotrigian:WBK42,0.136588,0.137096,0.058831,0.04845,0.036622,0.020917,0.00282,0.004384,0.014521,0.012574,-0.000812,0.009442,-0.022894,-0.017065,0.024158,0.012596,-0.001956,0.003927,0.001885,0.000625,0.007362,0.006554,0.006902,0.006386,0.005987
Durotrigian:WBK43,0.130897,0.13405,0.066373,0.039406,0.034776,0.017849,0.003525,0.005307,0.006545,0.010752,-0.003248,0.008542,-0.013825,-0.023396,0.021172,0.013922,0.002868,0.006841,-0.003017,0.012006,0.012852,-0.005935,0.002342,0.011568,0.002275
Durotrigian:WBK101,0.129758,0.136081,0.069767,0.050388,0.041546,0.020359,0,0.000462,0.007363,0.008565,-0.009743,0.006444,-0.013082,-0.022295,0.020494,0.009812,-0.006389,-0.002407,0.003268,0.008129,0.008984,0.000371,-0.011585,0.009881,-0.006347
Durotrigian:WBK103,0.127482,0.140143,0.072784,0.047481,0.038161,0.02008,0.00752,0.001385,0.005931,0.014214,-0.008769,0.003147,-0.014717,-0.012661,0.022394,0.011933,-0.00665,0.001774,0.003017,0.005253,0.005865,0.005935,-0.004807,0.008796,0.003113
Durotrigian:WBK105,0.134311,0.147252,0.055437,0.042636,0.045239,0.01506,-0.002115,0.006231,0.00634,0.009112,-0.003735,0.01124,-0.015015,-0.025185,0.018865,0.013789,0.010561,-0.006714,-0.00176,0.005253,0.003494,0.005317,-0.001602,0.000964,-0.005868
Durotrigian:WBK106,0.118376,0.13405,0.050534,0.044251,0.038776,0.011156,-0.008695,-0.005538,0.005113,0.000547,0.003085,0.013038,-0.014271,-0.01913,0.020222,0.003845,-0.01682,-0.002534,0.008422,0.01063,0.008485,0.001978,-0.008258,0.005422,-0.004311
Durotrigian:WBK107,0.113823,0.139128,0.06939,0.051357,0.038469,0.034025,0.019506,0.002769,-0.003886,-0.00328,-0.00065,-0.002248,-0.018434,-0.006331,0.00475,-0.007425,-0.006389,0.005068,0.003394,0.004877,0.003868,0.006059,-0.010476,-0.004217,0.005628
Durotrigian:WBK108,0.119514,0.129988,0.04978,0.044897,0.040007,0.015339,0.001175,0.002077,0.003068,0.007836,-0.016888,0.006594,-0.014569,-0.019955,0.022937,0.018828,0.004172,0.012922,0.004274,0.003001,-0.000873,-0.002226,-0.008258,0.015183,0.002275
Durotrigian:WBK191,0.133173,0.14319,0.067127,0.047481,0.036007,0.016733,-0.000235,0.014307,0.002863,-0.009476,-0.008444,0.009292,-0.019029,-0.012386,0.019137,-0.000796,-0.024512,-0.004814,0.001257,0.006503,0.016097,0.009892,-0.000616,0.014942,-0.003473
Durotrigian:WBK192,0.125205,0.147252,0.061094,0.043928,0.026774,0.009482,0.001175,0.022614,0.00634,0.007836,-0.010718,0.003147,-0.030178,-0.011973,0.015879,-0.001591,-0.005737,-0.004687,-0.006662,0.010005,0.009982,0.004699,-0.002711,0.003012,0.007305
Durotrigian:WBK195,0.136588,0.13405,0.05242,0.035207,0.05201,0.017012,0.000705,0.009692,0.016975,0.014761,-0.005521,0.009891,-0.012339,-0.007982,0.012622,0.014054,0.013169,0.000127,-0.006788,0.013882,0.002745,-0.001731,-0.003697,0.013978,-0.010059
Durotrigian:WBK196,0.126344,0.13405,0.059585,0.040375,0.039084,0.031794,-0.00376,-0.000923,0.015135,0.012757,-0.010393,0.009442,-0.020961,-0.020643,0.015879,0.012198,0.017211,0.000633,-0.001006,-0.001126,0.001872,0.007543,-0.012571,0.018677,0.010658

On a quick glance there seems to be only 2 continental celts:
Durotrigian:WBK02,0.135449,0.147252,0.058077,0.028101,0.050779,0.01004,-0.002115,-0.003231,0.02127,0.024784,-0.010555,0.014987,-0.015609,-0.016652,0.007465,0.005171,-0.000522,0.002914,0.003268,-0.002376,0.002246,0.006677,0.001602,0.000723,-0.001557
Durotrigian:WBK32,0.132035,0.128972,0.058077,0.020672,0.047393,-0.00251,0.00329,-0.004846,0.020248,0.00492,-0.008607,0.01079,-0.007433,-0.016377,0.006107,0.016971,0.006519,0.000127,-0.006536,0.004002,-0.012977,-0.00915,-0.00912,0.008194,0.005748

I'm curious to see the haplogroups.
Click to expand...
Thanks for those coords Stefano

1731980826501.png


Here's where they score to me, a modern person with ancestry from Britain

1731979542289.png
 
Last edited:
MOESAN said:
Are you sure: both of them are "eastern" (continental Celts Tène) shifted, and you 'outsider' is even closer to british Celts than the other one, if I understand well.
Click to expand...
Stefano said:
The G2a is WBK02, one of the two i pointed out as outliers, he has higher EEF and lower yamnaya, as you can see he's closest to continental celts. He must be a newcomer, otherwise its profile would not be different. I wonder how mutually intelligible were their languages at that stage.
Click to expand...
You were right, my head was in the clouds. Concerning their respective position, I looked at the affinities order, not at the affinities distances!
 
This comes from IllustrativeDNA:

1732031090259.png

1732031234221.png

On the site there was a sample that was labeled as Durotriges along with a couple other specific tribes. Since then they have just averaged them all together and called it Iron Age Briton
 
^^^WBK107 is near the bottom of most of those.

Here are closest individuals. Interesting spread:
Distance to: Durotrigian:WBK107
0.03509964 Sweden_Viking.SG:vik_stg021_noUDG.SG
0.03538078 Czech_BellBeaker:KOP003
0.03555925 Czech_EBA_Unetice:MIB031
0.03602698 England_IA_Roman.SG:6DT22_noUDG.SG--this one is U152 and might be Belgae?
0.03655108 Sweden_Viking.SG:VK433_noUDG.SG
0.03787027 Czech_EBA_Unetice:MIB032
0.03856904 Czech_EBA_Unetice:KNE003
0.03941982 England_Viking.SG:VK145_noUDG.SG
0.03966659 Sweden_Viking.SG:VK337_noUDG.SG
0.03969085 Germany_EarlyMedieval.SG:STR220c_noUDG.SG
0.03972788 Czech_BellBeaker:I7281
0.03975130 England_LBA:I14862
0.03997932 England_EIA:I19287
0.04001297 England_Viking.SG:VK257_noUDG.SG
0.04042304 Sweden_Viking.SG:VK40_noUDG.SG
0.04052529 England_MIA:I19909
0.04068990 Czech_EBA_Unetice:MIB071
0.04085168 Germany_EBA_Unetice:I0116
0.04087184 England_MIA:I21293
0.04151831 Sweden_Viking.SG:vik_grt035_noUDG.SG
0.04154541 England_EarlyMedieval_Saxon:I20640
0.04155093 Germany_Schleswig_Saxon_LMedieval:SWG011.A
0.04155756 Czech_IA_LaTene:I15049
0.04163054 Czech_BellBeaker:I7249
0.04180911 England_LBA:I16469

More:
Target: Durotrigian:WBK107
Distance: 1.7302% / 0.01730205 | ADC: 0.25x RC
33.2 Czech_IA_LaTene:I15039
26.8 Czech_EBA_Unetice:MIS004
20.8 England_Saxon.SG:OAI006.SG
9.8 Poland_EBA_Unetice.SG:RISE154_noUDG.SG
4.2 Germany_EarlyMedieval.SG:STR486_noUDG.SG
2.6 Poland_BKG_o2.SG:N22_noUDG.SG
2.2 South_Africa_1900BP.SG:I9133_noUDG.SG
0.4 Sweden_Viking.SG:VK64_noUDG.SG
-or-

Target: Durotrigian:WBK107
Distance: 1.5303% / 0.01530266
21.6 England_Saxon.SG:OAI006.SG
21.2 Czech_EBA_Unetice:MIS004
13.0 Lithuania_BA:Turlojiske3
6.4 Scotland_LIA:I16413
6.2 England_MIA_LIA:I11993
5.4 France_HautsDeFrance_MN.SG:Es97-1.SG
5.2 Scotland_Orkney_MBA.SG:KD057.SG
4.6 Hungary_MN_LBK:I1496
4.0 Poland_BKG_o2.SG:N22_noUDG.SG
3.6 Georgia_Kotias.SG:KK1_noUDG.SG
2.4 Italy_Sardinia_Medieval:SNN001
2.0 South_Africa_1900BP.SG:I9133_noUDG.SG
1.4 Poland_EBA_Unetice.SG:RISE154_noUDG.SG
1.2 England_LBA:I12614
1.0 Germany_Lech_EBA:UNTA85_1412
0.6 Germany_EarlyMedieval.SG:STR486_noUDG.SG
0.2 Iceland_Pre_Christian.SG:ORE-A-1_38_noUDG.SG
 
Big post. I took all of those individuals together and averaged them into one here:

K13/K15/K36/G25 many-to-average converter

dna-tools.xyz dna-tools.xyz

Durotriges_avg,0.1280291,0.1366083,0.0595633,0.0443939,0.0419545,0.0164439,0.0015637,0.0040117,0.008641,0.0084495,-0.005084,0.007574,-0.0159496,-0.0155989,0.0176881,0.0089523,-0.002876,0.0009331,0.0009186,0.0044661,0.0060134,0.0021235,-0.0024246,0.0066296,0.0005826

1732047968899.png


1732048434732.png
 
I'm a bit surprised by the distances to MI-LI, MI and LI Wales ! (averaged)
But as a whole it seems their average is closer to other IA England people...
It seems too that they were individually heterogenous enough: either this place received a lot of half "strangers" (Celts of other places on the continent or ...?), or changed by time, or these results are a bit skewed by inequal DNA covering ?
Very interesting thread indeed.
 
MOESAN said:
I'm a bit surprised by the distances to MI-LI, MI and LI Wales ! (averaged)
But as a whole it seems their average is closer to other IA England people...
It seems too that they were individually heterogenous enough: either this place received a lot of half "strangers" (Celts of other places on the continent or ...?), or changed by time, or these results are a bit skewed by inequal DNA covering ?
Very interesting thread indeed.
Click to expand...
The Durotriges samples show outlier connections with Belgium/France and what looks like Scandinavia/Northern Germany, but on the whole they fall within the expected range for Southern England during the late Iron Age. Southern England was becoming more diverse from the LBA onwards, so I think we're seeing an expected ongoing spread of samples towards the continent.

There are only three G25 IA samples from Wales in total, two from the south coast and one from the north coast. One is genetically more northern than we would expect, but it's difficult to draw conclusions from three samples. The Durotriges average (including the outliers) plots near to the Wales_MIA sample.

Wales_MIA_LIA:I16475; 550-1 BCE; Dinorben (Wales, Clwyd); R-DF13>Z253; X2b; 222574 SNPs; QUESTIONABLE
Wales_MIA:I16405; 397-205 calBCE; RAF St Athan (Wales, Glamorgan); R-DF13; K1a+195; 852290 SNPs
Wales_IA:I6771; 169 calBCE - 2 calCE; Llanmaes (Wales, Glamorgan, Llantwit Major); U4b1a; 215477 SNPs

There are also four low coverage samples, not suitable for G25.

I5364; 793-567 calBCE; Culver Hole Cave (Wales, West Glamorgan, Gower Peninsula, Port Eynon); H5c; 29197 SNPs
I16410; 550-1 BCE; Dinorben (Wales, Clwyd); T2b; 40835 SNPs
I16514; 550-1 BCE; Dinorben (Wales, Clwyd); HV0; 12924 SNPs; CRITICAL
I16471; 200 BCE - 50 CE; Llanmaes (Wales, Glamorgan, Llantwit Major, Llanmaes); J1c2e; 6839 SNPs

I think the G25 plot is okay to give an idea of where the samples fall. I'm not sure what you meant by stretched, but I did enlarge the plot more than you may be used to. Also, NW Europeans don't separate as neatly as we would expect (or perhaps like).

I do understand what you meant by "eastern", as in the pre-Germanic expansion Iron Age some Central European samples were Atlantic by modern standards.

Keep in mind that the France IA2 averages for Southeast and Occitanie consist of only five samples each, so there may be samples waiting to be found that would plot closer to modern SE France. A small sample size can skew the impression.
 
qh777 said:
Big post. I took all of those individuals together and averaged them into one here:

K13/K15/K36/G25 many-to-average converter

dna-tools.xyz dna-tools.xyz

Durotriges_avg,0.1280291,0.1366083,0.0595633,0.0443939,0.0419545,0.0164439,0.0015637,0.0040117,0.008641,0.0084495,-0.005084,0.007574,-0.0159496,-0.0155989,0.0176881,0.0089523,-0.002876,0.0009331,0.0009186,0.0044661,0.0060134,0.0021235,-0.0024246,0.0066296,0.0005826
Click to expand...

I didn't quote your image as it was quite big, but I question the coherence of your method compared to just viewing a PCA plot.

You have WBK32 and WBK10 as being amongst the most distant from the Grand Est IA2.SG average, despite WBK32 plotting on top of the Grand Est IA2.SG average and WBK10 plotting far west of the Grand Est IA2.SG cluster.

In other words, your method fails to discriminate geographically.
 
Capitalis said:
I didn't quote your image as it was quite big, but I question the coherence of your method compared to just viewing a PCA plot.

You have WBK32 and WBK10 as being amongst the most distant from the Grand Est IA2.SG average, despite WBK32 plotting on top of the Grand Est IA2.SG average and WBK10 plotting far west of the Grand Est IA2.SG cluster.

In other words, your method fails to discriminate geographically.
Click to expand...
I was just showing the Durotriges individuals genetic distances to averaged samples from Britain, Northern France, and Ireland. Based on the 2021 study that IllustrativeDNA references: "a migration into southern Britain during the Bronze Age, over a 500 year period from 1300 BC to 800 BC. The migrants were genetically most similar to ancient individuals from France, and had higher levels of EEF ancestry. During 1000–875 BCE, their genetic marker swiftly spread through southern Britain, making up around half the ancestry of subsequent Iron Age people in this area, but not in northern Britain." one can see that Scotland IA samples aren't as close to the Durotriges compared to others from iron age England, seeming to confirm this migration.

There needs to be more G25 iron age samples for Wales and Scotland. There's over 240 iron age England samples alone. I only have 3 iron age Welsh individuals and 25 Scottish individuals. For Iron age Grand Est France only 20.
 
Last edited:
Orentil said:
Now I found a bit more:

In Search of the Durotriges

Investigating kinship practices using population biology in southern coastal Britain during the transition from the late Iron Age to the Roman period.
Presented by:
Dr. Phillip Endicott
University of Tartu, Estonia
University of Bournemouth, United Kingdom
Thursday, November 21, 5:00 pm
230 Hale Science, Department of Anthropology

I will present a feasibility study of southern coastal Britain either side of the Roman conquest in 43 CE. Shortly after the hillforts of Dorset fall into disuse ~100 BCE, a new cultural horizon appears, characterised by a distinctive funerary tradition, and lasts into the early 2nd century CE. The site under study, Winterbourne Kington, is central to its distribution. Genetic pedigrees, based on 45 individuals, are consistent with matrilocal post-marital residence and male exogamy. Using haplotypes and chromosome painting reveals a significant increase in mobility from the continent commencing prior to the Roman conquest, which is not witnessed outside of the southern coastal region.

This study demonstrates both the strengths and limitations of population biology for understanding social structure in the past. I will explain how distinguishing between different possible descent groups associated with matrilocal residence, and the geographical origin of male partners, will be addressed in an extended study using detailed settlement archaeology, and stable isotopes of mobility. Moreover, by increased sampling density it will be possible to study transformations in kinship before, during, and after the Roman conquest, establish whether this distinctive funerary tradition is a local development and if it could be connected to the regional polity named as the Durotriges by Ptolemy in the 2nd century CE.
Click to expand...
hopefully someone records the talk and posts it to Youtube with decent audio and video quality.
 
Capitalis said:
The majority of my English ancestry is from within or near to the Durotriges' territory.
Click to expand...
That's interesting! I have known/documented English ancestry from Stoke on Trent and Yorkshire. From what I've seen I get ancient sample matches that are from the Dobunni and Parisi among others.
 
@qh777
Have you the traditional admixtures percentages for these Durotriges people?( WHG, Anat-Neol, Steppic...)
 
MOESAN said:
@qh777
Have you the traditional admixtures percentages for these Durotriges people?( WHG, Anat-Neol, Steppic...)
Click to expand...
This first result comes from this list: https://www.exploreyourdna.com/calculator/2/g25-calculatrice-standard-global25-par-davidski.htm

1732152971077.png


This second result comes from a list I made:

1732153034558.png


This third result was my attempt to isolate Natufian admixture for individuals that have lower % admix natufian where the late neolithic Anatolian takes it up with other lists due to the fact that the neolithic Anatolians themselves have some Natufian ancestry

1732153382866.png
 
Last edited:
Maciamo said:
That's very interesting. Ancient Britons are usually expected to be overwhelmingly R1b-L21, but these Durotriges samples have nearly as much R1b-DF27 as R1b-L21.

There is of course a bit of Neolithic British I2a-M284 > L1195.

Also interesting is the presence of G2a-L497. This branch of G2a is typically associated with the Alpine Celts, Etruscans and Italics — that is to say with the U152 branch of R1b. Its presence among the Durotriges could suggest intermingling with their Eastern neighbours the Belgae and the Atrebates, who had recently migrated from what is now northern France. Another possibility is that it came with an earlier continental migration, for example during the Hallstatt period.
Click to expand...
This distribution (geography and time) of Y-G2a-L497 seems to me linked to Urnfields periods, when we saw some introgressions of new people among the Tumuli world, from certainly south-central Europe (Carpathin Bassin)... It's only then that the male post-BB Celtic clans appear to have accepted not Y-R1b-P312 descendants.
 
qh777 said:
This first result comes from this list: https://www.exploreyourdna.com/calculator/2/g25-calculatrice-standard-global25-par-davidski.htm

View attachment 17008

This second result comes from a list I made:

View attachment 17009

This third result was my attempt to isolate Natufian admixture for individuals that have lower % admix natufian where the late neolithic Anatolian takes it up with other lists due to the fact that the neolithic Anatolians themselves have some Natufian ancestry

View attachment 17010
Click to expand...
Your first try, if less precise than the third one, seems to me more reflective of the true input of Yamnaya/Steppes.
 
PCA of the Durotrigians. They are the green.
1733883293329.png

1733883456334.png
 
They seem spred very far one from another, do they not? small readable genomic material?
 
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