To burn or not to burn: LBA/EIA Balkan case

[Riverman]

Nah, that's not all, that's just a propaganda by Balkan Slavs, to make their identity more compact lol. Look, i sniff from a miles away this kind of stuff.

They started accusing Albanians of trying to Albanize E-V13, then hoop, they reversed the role. Captain Obvious.

Let's view it from a neutral point of view. There is no escape from it, sooner or latter results are coming.

If the baseline for Proto-Slavs is about 3 percent and specific branches, how can that "Slavicise" E-V13 as a whole? I don't get it.

What I get is that
a) Slavs have Carpatho-Balkan admixture (not West Asian!) which Baltoslavs had not, even in the early stages
b) Some E-V13 branches were spread by Slavs, by Proto-Slavs and South Slavs. E-V13 works in this scenario like a package:
3 % from start
? % in Pannonia-Carpathians-Moldova
? % in Serbia

Therefore originally Slavs carried about 2-5 % E-V13 when coming to any region, and then they acquired more, obviously, if coming in a territory in which they assimilated a population (like Romance speakers from the Danubian provinces) with a higher percentage.

Any people in the Balkans which got Slavic admixture therefore got some (undefined how much) E-V13 from incoming Slavic groups.

In the case of the Albanians or Southern Vlachs, it is pretty obvious that this isn't much. You can extrapolate it, generally speaking, from the core Slavic lineages (R-Z282, I2a-Din). There could be individual founders though, which skew results, but again, nobody could Slavicise E-V13 in the Carpatho-Balkan zone based on my model.
Because whatever total paternal contribution Slavs had, going after my model, 2-5 of that total contribution would be E-V13. Like if its 50 %, probably between 1-3 %. Since the Balkans has way more E-V13, it won't be all Slavic, that's a no brainer and therefore I don't get the problem.

 

[Archetype0ne]

Its pretty easy to investigate without going too wild with extrapolations. You have all the data points you need to test it.
Go check the Hungarian migration era studies. How many Slavic clades among the Avars and Huns? How much E-V13? What autosomal breakdowns?

Not sure how people are not lazy to write entire books in this thread, but can't bother to model their hypotheses.

Also about damn time we see those Kuline samples. Might motivate me enough to get into qpADM again. G25 is a pretty trash method for investigating hypotheticals considering it does not reject models.

 

[Riverman]

The autosomal profiles are rather secondary in the Hungarian period, because by then we know that E-V13 was established in completely different ethnolinguistic and autosomal groups. Like we get even nearly 100 % East Asian E-V13 carriers among the Avars. Even at the time of Himera we get R-Z93 and E-V13 with a similar nearly fully Caucasian profile. Around 1.000-1.300 we get 100 percent Early Slavic E-V13 carriers and so on.

Even by 300 BC E-V13 carriers won't have all the same autosomal profile (like being Celtic, Scythian, Dacian, Thracian, Greek, Illyrian etc. autosomally), we actually do know that. The clear majority was Balkan IA though, that's true as well.

To put things into perspective, in the Early Iron Age, E-V13 surpassed all later core Slavic lineages taken together demographically. We can deduce that from the respective phylogenies and branching events. In the Medieval and modern context however, the about 3 % Slavic assimilated E-V13 lineages do matter a lot, because Slavs became such a hugely important population in Europe. Even 3 % among the Slavs exceed in total number a lot of other people as a whole. And apparently the diversity is not low, but fairly high.

That Slavs didn't increase E-V13 in the heartlands is absolutely evident as well, because I'm pretty sure that especially Romania the numbers of local, deeply rooted E-V13 lineages from the lineages plummetted with every invasion and the most with the Slavs, with a significant portion being re-introduced from more Southern provinces secondarily and not being local survivors.

How much actual continuity there is, from the Dacian to the modern era, in Romania, can only be solved with way more ancient and modern high resolution DNA samples.

 

[Denxz]

Tell the truth I find him annoying but he has a big fanbase

A phantom fan base made of sock accounts. Strabio-brumi/auditorium, excine, are the same person. He likely had other sock accounts. His favorite shtick, was to post a mediocre question through an alter ego account and answer his own question that he himself posted through his main account. Then his friends like olive oil and other sock accounts would log in to upvote him. That was WWE tier script play. Allegedly anthrogenica was a serious forum, where big brains met. The big brains over there could not detect obvious/sloppy fraud. Or the forum was not really serious, it did after all rott from within and close down.

Thanks for bringing a favorite subject up, I enjoyed dragging his slain corpse in front his suboridnate clan members/fan-girls that lurke and often spam here.

I am pretty sure this guy is a banned Moldovan/Romanian member you are replying to who calls me a troll lol , he is on theapricity taking about me . haha . This guy basically claims proto-Albanians originated in Moldova haha. He is a troll yet goes on theapricity to call me a troll

 

[Southpaw]

He has been wrong many times now. You bring up that spiteful degenerate as if his approval is needed. What does a Kelmuti tribesman know? I predicted R-PF763 homeland in southern Albania Bronze Age within weeks of learning G25 calc. go back to anthrogenica and read some threads. I've provided good insight, he and his team only oppose, gaslight, close threads down.

More interesting questions to ask are; why is brumi such a E-V13 cuck, whats up with the J2b-L283 fetish. Also why was okeefe taking such good care of him, did the Enligh gentleman "groom" him?

To be clear here, he is not Kelmend. He is from Hoti most likely and J2b2-L283 himself. So you don't get confused.

 

[Denxz]

I am pretty sure that Bruzmi is E-V13 . Although on other sides he might have other lineages like every Albanian. I personally dont see how people are cucks just because they belong to a lineage on one side and have opposing views, we are all Albanians and mixed together at the end of the day , you have Albanian j2b2 that oppose him for example. You Guys make it sound like ydna war. Chill. Bruzmi is wrong about Ev13 so why care about his opinion?

 

[Archetype0ne]

Usually having haters is the highest form of respect. But yeah, thinking Brumzi, Olive Picker and Exine are the same person is borderline schizo. Just because different people agree on a topic doesn't mean they are the same person, not that hard to wrap ones head around.

 

[Denxz]

According to this Romanian troll I am bitching when the administrator on apecity is a well known anti Albanian. Pro Russian, pro Serb etc as are many members there.

 

[Southpaw]

Can you guys not pollute this thread please, because you lack any basic comprehension and understanding and come here with your bitching.

It was going ok, so, keep your bullshits on another threads.

 

[Archetype0ne]

Can you guys not pollute this thread please, because you lack any basic comprehension and understanding and come here with your bitching.

It was going ok, so, keep your bullshits on another threads.

Agreed. But keep the same energy when people go on egomaniacal schizo rants about coordinated sock puppets, dragging slain corpses, cucks, grooming and what not for months on end. Not just when people call such bs out.

 

[Denxz]

Agreed. But keep the same energy when people go on egomaniacal schizo rants about coordinated sock puppets, dragging slain corpses, cucks, grooming and what not for months on end. Not just when people call such bs out.

Yeah, thats the only reason i started going off topic. Even more hilarious accusing exine and fustan/olive picker of being Bruzmi . wtf . I like lost respect for these dudes that make these kind of accusations. The extremism they come with doesnt stop there, they are leading some kind of haplo war lmao

 

[Denxz]

Can you guys not pollute this thread please, because you lack any basic comprehension and understanding and come here with your bitching.

It was going ok, so, keep your bullshits on another threads.

Sure. Just make sure to test all your sides, you might be J2b2 on some of them but dont kill yourself if you find out

 

[Riverman]

Sure. Just make sure to test all your sides, you might be J2b2 on some of them but dont kill yourself if you find out

Even I have at least indirect (relatives of relatives) J-L283 people in the wider range of closer matches. Some are from North Western Germany. Other actual relatives of relevance (their paternal line is in my tree) have quite rare branches, even if they come from Western Germany. Both E-V13 and J-L283 are regular European branches from major ethnic groups from European history (Daco-Thracians and Illyrians respectively). Who should care? That's really the tribal thinking and clan infights of some people from the Balkans (not just Albanians) which make this bigger than it should be, to the point of getting comical for outsiders.

Can you imagine German I-M253 bitching with German R-U106? That would be on a similar level.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

I didn't say olive oil is brumi, though you definitely can make bread with olive oil, just ask gjergj on this.
I said excine and brumi are the same, and likely strabio as well. Hawk has issues with the idea of a E-V13 person being an absolute cuck and having J2b-L283 envy. Losers and cucks do exits, and he is the tribal chief of his upset boys here, which makes this even more comical(alpha cuck and his beta cucks, what a team). Excine doxxed himself, posted family photos, clan name and haplogroup. So either excine is a decoy account(created for no purpose) or brumi is excine himself.

And yeah he has been embarrassed, I agree with you fellas.

 

[Southpaw]

I didn't say olive oil is brumi, though you definitely can make bread with olive oil, just ask gjergj on this.
I said excine and brumi are the same, and likely strabio as well. Hawk has issues with the idea of a E-V13 person being an absolute cuck and having J2b-L283 envy. Losers and cucks do exits, and he is the tribal chief of his upset boys here, which makes this even more comical(alpha cuck and his beta cucks, what a team). Excine doxxed himself, posted family photos, clan name and haplogroup. So either excine is a decoy account(created for no purpose) or brumi is excine himself.

And yeah he has been embarrassed, I agree with you fellas.

I didn't understand what you said regarding me, but anyway.

Nobody ever said Olive oil is Brumi, i totally agree with you, they just made that up to make others in a more negative view. Though excine/brumi being the same person, it was me who said that first and i stand with that, he sounds too robotic and inauthentic.

My issue from the beginning stands that and i am pretty much sure, there was an attempt, a propaganda band going against us, and there is no denial about that.

 

[ioas]

According to this Romanian troll I am bitching when the administrator on apecity is a well known anti Albanian. Pro Russian, pro Serb etc as are many members there.

Man your proving me Right! Now get get some professional help and leave me alone

 

[PaleoRevenge]

I said you can't get around the thought of someone who is E-V13 being such a staunch advisory of E-V13's history. And that person has to be J2b-L283 or some other haplogroup to engage in dishonorable behavior. I beg to differ, weak people exists in all haplogroups. He is willing to cuck and disown his ancestors. He also carries a giant chip on his shoulder, a lot of bitterness. His conduct has been nasty all the way.
If you made the connection between the two first, good for you. I did not see that and made the same connection on my own. Or maybe someone/entertain doxxed excine to me.

 

[ioas]

 

[ioas]

DenxZ just admitted to making bot accounts on aprcity

 

[Southpaw]

I said you can't get around the thought of someone who is E-V13 being such a staunch advisory of E-V13's history. And that person has to be J2b-L283 or some other haplogroup to engage in dishonorable behavior. I beg to differ, weak people exists in all haplogroups. He is willing to cuck and disown his ancestors. He also carries a giant chip on his shoulder, a lot of bitterness. His conduct has been nasty all the way.
If you made the connection between the two first, good for you. I did not see that and made the same connection on my own. Or maybe someone/entertain doxxed excine to me.

I don't put much thought on it, but if i have to bet its very very likely he is Hotjan and not Kelmend as you said, not that someone from Kelmend cannot be dishonorable or other E-V13, there are many of course, which is not the context of the discussion, and i know many personally as well.

The main point being, you try to discuss something or put a theory/hypothesis, they poop all over with their shitty complexes in a scenario where it doesn't benefit their line, and like DenxZ/entertain which hilariously in every occasion was too involved with E-V13 Roman mercenaries, non-existent, etc, etc, etc.