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Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

mount123 said:
From what I can make of the rumors and what my gut feeling is telling me in the Balkans and further north they mostly tested sites from where we know that there is a lot of R1b-Z2103 (from Vucedol Slavonia to Bulgaria etc.) which is not really surprising since they have targeted early Yamnaya dispersals. That is their main interest. And they have also targeted a lot of TC BA culture sites and TC IA Celtic sites and these will mostly be R-L2 or 51+. We will essentially see how wide spread TC Celts perhaps were in that area. And we will also probably see Pannonian Neolithic like samples spread all over the area even in the Bronze Age and stuff like that. The overall sample size from the Balkans will not be too high however.

Not really thrilled about this one but too would be glad to see more IA East Adriatic samples and BA Dinaric samples since those are more of interest to me.
Click to expand...
I was right with this one. There is a lot of TC Celtic lineages in the Balkans but not surprising considering the archological sites.
 
mount123 said:
J-Z2507 (within J2) is found in 21 individuals. It is part of haplogroup J-M102 for which it was written in 2004 on the basis of present-day samples that: “J-M12 is almost totally represented by its sublineage J-M102, which shows frequency peaks in both the southern Balkans and north-central Italy”(471) In the ancient data we find it in 3 samples from Rome,(436) with the earliest being R474.SG (700-600 BCE). All remaining samples are from the Balkans and indeed the Western Balkans (Montenegro, Croatia, Albania) and most of them are from the Bronze Age. Thus, J-Z2507 has a peri-Adriatic ancient distribution in agreement with the present-day distribution and may represent a Bronze Age or later expansion in the area. The immediately upstream nodes of J-Z2507 are J-Z585, J-Z615, J-Z597 with a similar time depth and include two additional Bronze Age samples from Albania and Croatia, and are thus part of the same pattern. J-Z600, the parent node of J-Z585, includes four additional individuals, one of which is from Croatia, and three of which are from the Late Bronze Age Nuragic culture in the island of Sardinia,(20, 453) thus suggesting that this culture included individuals of Bronze Age Western Balkan origin (these might have Italian intermediaries, but we do not detect any J-Z600 in mainland Italy prior to the aforementioned Iron Age sample from Rome).

Jesus these nomenclatures are questionable. Just say J2b-L283 and then name the downstream clades.
Click to expand...
Most of them are from the Bronze Age and then they proceed to question wether it expanded in the Bronze or Iron Age :laughing::laughing::laughing:
 
So, any links of these E-V13 lineages being connected to modern day Albanian lineages? I am quite sad that no samples were taken from Kosovo, that place IMO would be an area where we would find such lineages connected to us.
 
Excine said:
So, any links of these E-V13 lineages being connected to modern day Albanian lineages? I am quite sad that no samples were taken from Kosovo, that place IMO would be an area where we would find such lineages connected to us.
Click to expand...

Not high coverage, i am pretty sure Serbia/Kosovo was packed with E-V13.

At this stage i can guess Vatin, Vatya, Hatvan, Nagyrev must be the ancestor of E-V13. No way they can just pop up in Psenicevo in dozen numbers like that.
 
Hawk said:
Well, all over B.C Thrace E-V13 appears, only 1 occassion of R1a. And it was found in a pit as well, Kapitan Andreevo alongside dozens of E-V13. This was the ritual pit of Eastern Urnfielders. No E-V13 in Neolithic or EBA Romania though.

In Kapitan Andreevo several ones, and in two different locations somewhere in Central Bulgaria.

Other cases of 1 E-V13 is in Iron Age Croatia alongside J2b2's. And in Early Middle Age Western Turkey 2 E-V13, and very like 3 others whose real status we don't know since they were mixed, ISOGG column classifies them as E1b1b1a1b.
Click to expand...
E1b-V13 Thracian af.
 
Anyone who can check if 3 samples from Mugla Western Turkey are J-PF2254 or E-V13?
 
300937730_149513054384135_7182013488968352598_n.jpg



Still not enough coverage in Central Balkans to make certain conclusions.
 
Excine said:
300937730_149513054384135_7182013488968352598_n.jpg



Still not enough coverage in Central Balkans to make certain conclusions.
Click to expand...

Those cremating Enchelei EIA from Lake Ohrid must be E-V13. Their burial rite is alien to the older population during EIA, J2a and R1b-Z2103 carriers from Plaosnik. That's my bet. But, i could be wrong though, i admit.

J2a and R1b-Z2103 might be the Matt-Painted Pottery Culture influence we have been mentioning all the time.
 
Hey Excine, may i ask you something. Can you bring this to rafc attention in that thread in anthrogenica? So perhaps he can check whether these 3 samples from Western Turkey are E1b1b1a1b/E-V13 or J2a. Per ISOGG they are E1b1b1a1b but they might have mixed.


[TD="align: left"] I20261 [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] I20261 [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] 16SM174 [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] Adult; 34-47 yrs. [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] petrous [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] This study [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] Alpaslan, Songül; Aytek, Ahmet İhsan; Kaya, Esra Hilal; Yavuz, Alper Yener; Erir-Pazarcı, Sabiha [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] Context: Archaeological - Period [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 1346 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 65 [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] 491-717 CE [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] TUR_Aegean_Muğla_Samantaş_Byz [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] Samantaş (Aegean, Muğla, Yatağan) [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] Turkey [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 37.34 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 28.04 [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] 1240K [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 1 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 0.314 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 283754 [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] M [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] n/a (no relatives detected) [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] Lazaridis caller (12/6/2020) based on Yfull 8.09 running directly on the bam [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] J-PF2254 [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] E1b1b1a1a2 [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] K1a [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] [0.947,0.979] [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 0.4 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 0.418 [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] [0.000, 0.045] [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] ss.half [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] S20261.Y1.E1.L1 [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] PASS (mtcontam=[0.947,0.979]) [/TD]

[TD="align: left"] I20265 [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] I20265 [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] 18SM83-Ind. 2 [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] Infant [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] petrous [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] This study [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] Alpaslan, Songül; Aytek, Ahmet İhsan; Kaya, Esra Hilal; Yavuz, Alper Yener; Erir-Pazarcı, Sabiha [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] Context: Archaeological - Period [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 1346 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 65 [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] 491-717 CE [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] TUR_Aegean_Muğla_Samantaş_Byz [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] Samantaş (Aegean, Muğla, Yatağan) [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] Turkey [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 37.34 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 28.04 [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] 1240K [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 1 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 4.401 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 832732 [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] M [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] Turkey, Aegean, Muğla, Yatağan, Samantaşı, Yeşilbağcılar-YTEUAS Family A (2 members) (I20264-I20265 are 1st degree relatives) [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] Lazaridis caller (12/6/2020) based on Yfull 8.09 running directly on the bam [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] J-PF2254 [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] E1b1b1a1a2 [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] K1a4c [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] [0.975,0.992] [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 0.266 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 0.447 [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] [0.005, 0.010] [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] ss.half [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] S20265.Y1.E1.L1 [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] PASS (Xcontam=[0.005, 0.010]) [/TD]

[TD="align: left"] I20264 [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] I20264 [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] 18SM83-Ind. 1 [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] Infant [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] petrous [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] This study [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] Alpaslan, Songül; Aytek, Ahmet İhsan; Kaya, Esra Hilal; Yavuz, Alper Yener; Erir-Pazarcı, Sabiha [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] Context: Archaeological - Period [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 1346 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 65 [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] 491-717 CE [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] TUR_Aegean_Muğla_Samantaş_Byz_brother.I20265 [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] Samantaş (Aegean, Muğla, Yatağan) [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] Turkey [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 37.34 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 28.04 [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] 1240K [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 1 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 4.87 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 832038 [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] M [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] Turkey, Aegean, Muğla, Yatağan, Samantaşı, Yeşilbağcılar-YTEUAS Family A (2 members) (I20264-I20265 are 1st degree relatives) [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] Lazaridis caller (12/6/2020) based on Yfull 8.09 running directly on the bam [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] J-PF2254 [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] E1b1b1a1a2 [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] K1a4c [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] [0.982,0.996] [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 0.242 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 0.458 [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] [0.004, 0.008] [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] ss.half [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] S20264.Y1.E1.L1 [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] PASS [/TD]
 
re Kelmendasi:

So far I cannot seem to find any indication that the two E-V13 samples I listed were in fact J2a.
 
Excine said:
Np, just posted.
Click to expand...

These are different from 2 E-V13 from Marmaris. They are from Mugla, South-Western Turkey, Byzantine period as well, post the full infos i put, if you don't mind, the dataset is published, rafc can check. :kidding:
 
Anyway, they seem to be either some other E-M35 than E-V13 or J2a. It looks like i have mistaken the ISOGG clade of E-L618/E-V13. My mistake. I lost myself on 1b1b1b1b1.
 
Looks like two samples from Velim Kosa, belonging to Y-DNA J2b2 have the same mtdna as me, H7.

Looks like two E-V13 samples from Kapitan Andreevo have H7 as well as mtDNA.
 
One thing to note as well, Moldova Noua_Sabatinovska looks like R1a. E-V13 didn't come from there, they must have met somewhere.
 
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