E1b1b1 and J2 in Balkans and Italy

[Sigfrido]

Dude you are looping. The highest diversity of E-M78 in Europe is found in Italy, France and Spain. E-V13 has been found in Neolitich Spain. Now it means that 100% European French mixed with Arab and Jewish slaves, while 50% Middle Eastern/Levantine Albanians never mixed with anyone, doesn't it? Yes sure.

 

[ukaj]

Dude you are looping. The highest diversity of E-M78 in Europe is found in Italy, France and Spain. E-V13 has been found in Neolitich Spain. Now it means that 100% European French mixed with Arab and Jewish slaves, while 50% Middle Eastern/Levantine Albanians never mixed with anyone, doesn't it? Yes sure.

https://genetiker.wordpress.com/2015/09/01/more-y-snp-calls-from-iron-and-bronze-age-bulgaria/ maybe this will shed some light on this matter of ev-13 E-V13 did not come from anywhere but the Balkans. Its immediate ancestors are Mesolithic Balkanic.I dont think it is higher in italia at all it is high among the albanian people.

 

[ukaj]

Please, just quote were he says that

• 
  

  • Cavalli Sforza says Haplogroup E1b1b1, mainly in the form of its E1b1b1a2 (E-V13) sub-clade reaches frequencies above 40% around the area ofKosovo.[31] This clade is thought to have arrived in Europe from western Asia either in the later Mesolithic,[32] or the Neolithic.[33]

  
  
  
  Battagliaet al Concerningtiming the distribution and diversity of V13 however,Battagliaet al. (2008)proposed an earlier movement whereby the E-M78* lineage ancestral toall modern E-V13 men moved rapidly out of a Southern Egyptianhomeland and arrived in Europe with onlyMesolithictechnologies.They then suggest that the E-V13 sub-clade of E-M78 only expandedsubsequently as native Balkan 'foragers-cum-farmers' adoptedNeolithic technologies from the Near East. They propose that thefirst major dispersal of E-V13 from the Balkans may have been in thedirection of the AdriaticSea withtheNeolithicImpressedWarecultureoften referred to as Impressa or Cardial. Peričicet al. (2005),rather propose that the main route of E-V13 spread was along theVardar-Morava-Danube river 'highway' system.
  Incontrast to Battaglia, Crucianiet al. (2007)tentatively suggested (i) a different point where the V13 mutationhappened on its way from Egypt to the Balkans via the Middle East,and (ii) a later dispersal time.
  
  
  
  Morerecently, Lacanet al. (2011)announced that a 7000 year old skeleton in a Neolithic context in aSpanish funeral cave, was an E-V13 man. (The other specimens testedfrom the same site were inhaplogroupG2a,which has been found in Neolithic contexts throughout Europe.) Using7 STR markers, this specimen was identified as being similar to modern individuals tested in Albania, Bosnia, Greece, Corsica, and Provence. The authors therefore proposed that, whether or not themodern distribution of E-V13 of today is a result of more recentevents, E-V13 was already in Europe within the Neolithic, carried byearly farmers from the Eastern Mediterranean to the WesternMediterranean, much earlier than the Bronze age. This supports theproposals of Battaglia et al. rather than Cruciani et al. at leastconcerning earliest European dispersals, but E-V13 may have dispersedmore than once. Even more recent than the Bronze Age, it has alsobeen proposed that modern E-V13's modern distribution in Europe is atleast partly caused by Roman era movements of people.[86] (Seebelow.)
  
  
  Afteran initial focus upon E1b1b as a Neolithic marker, a more recentstudy in January 2010, looked at Y haplogroup R1b1b, which is muchmore common in WesternEurope.Mark Jobling said: "We focused on the commonest Y-chromosomelineage in Europe, carried by about 110 million men, it follows agradient from south-east to north-west, reaching almost 100%frequency in Ireland. We looked at how the lineage is distributed,how diverse it is in different parts of Europe, and how old it is."The results suggested that the lineage R1b1b2(R-M269),like E1b1b or J lineages,spread together with farming from the Near East. Dr PatriciaBalaresque added: "In total, this means that more than 80% ofEuropean Y chromosomes descend from incoming farmers. In contrast,most maternal genetic lineages seem to descend from hunter-gatherers.To us, this suggests a reproductive advantage for farming males overindigenous hunter-gatherer males during the switch from hunting andgathering, to farming"
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_history_of_Europe
  
  National Geographic:- Haplogroup E1b1b East Africa and Western Eurasia - e-m215 has spread among North and East African Populations, to West Asiaand eventually into Europe end quote.
  
  Aegean Immigration to the southern Levant:The Y chromosome patterns of contemporary populations offers a lens throughwhich to explore the possible demographic effects of the Iron Age I Philistines in the farsouthern coastal Levant. Apart from the J2a patterns listed above, previous studies showan Aegean focus for two non-J Y lineages: E-V13 and G-M527/L13. E-V13 has beenshown to have originated most probably in the Balkans circa 9000 BCE as a Mesolithicmarker, while G-M527/L13 arose somewhat later during the Late Neolithic Era in coastalWestern Anatolia (Battaglia et al. 2008; Rootsi et al. 2012). Both lineages track Greekcolonization events from present day Marseilles/Provence (Greek colony of Massalia) toGreek colonies in Ukraine and Crimea (King et al. 2011; Rootsi et al. 2012). We alsofind E-V13 and G-M527 among contemporary Palestinians and Druze from Israel (table1). This result suggests that E-V13 and G-M527 may track the immigration of Aegean........
  
  http://digitalcommons.wayne.edu/cgi/...biol_preprints
  ​
  
  
  
  

I belive you are correct.E-V13 did not come from anywhere but the Balkans. Its immediate ancestors are Mesolithic Balkanic

 

[ukaj]

Dude you are looping. The highest diversity of E-M78 in Europe is found in Italy, France and Spain. E-V13 has been found in Neolitich Spain. Now it means that 100% European French mixed with Arab and Jewish slaves, while 50% Middle Eastern/Levantine Albanians never mixed with anyone, doesn't it? Yes sure.

What part of italia are you talking about friend

 

[ukaj]

Dude you are looping. The highest diversity of E-M78 in Europe is found in Italy, France and Spain. E-V13 has been found in Neolitich Spain. Now it means that 100% European French mixed with Arab and Jewish slaves, while 50% Middle Eastern/Levantine Albanians never mixed with anyone, doesn't it? Yes sure.

Since 1992 their were mass migration to otranto of albanian people an bari also around 17 thousand albanians.You would ashume since the highest concentrate of m-78 is in both these places would may mean of the arrival of the albanian people to this coastal line,,Just a thought,Alot were from kosova. Anyway i belive ev-13 is a genetic drift even if it is stems from africa doesnt really matter we all come from them in some point in time all dna is genetic drift.

genetic drift at its best unless the postman got to her lol

 

[Sigfrido]

They have actually tested Calabrian Arbereshe in Sarno et al and they are about 50% I1-I2a-R1a. Sicilian Arbereshe are a little bit more mixed with natives. E-V13 among them is only 15%, as opposed to Al Banians who have 30-40%.

 

[Fustan]

Its from Albanians.

 

[Yetos]

They have actually tested Calabrian Arbereshe in Sarno et al and they are about 50% I1-I2a-R1a. Sicilian Arbereshe are a little bit more mixed with natives. E-V13 among them is only 15%, as opposed to Al Banians who have 30-40%.

well I was expecting that, to have high I2, but not R1a

in the areas with high density of Arbanites also show I2 but not R1a,
do you have the type of R1a? is it like the Francais or NW Europe one?
it semms like general Maniakis army might have much I2,
I am expecting to find I2b1 in them, and R1b common with Remenii,
if that found then I am certain about their ethnogenesis,

 

[Fustan]

well I was expecting that, to have high I2, but not R1a

in the areas with high density of Arbanites also show I2 but not R1a,
do you have the type of R1a? is it like the Francais or NW Europe one?
it semms like general Maniakis army might have much I2,
I am expecting to find I2b1 in them, and R1b common with Remenii,
if that found then I am certain about their ethnogenesis,

What? Where Arvanites settled, majority is E-V13, J2b or R1b-L23. I2 exists all over Greece (R1a too). Both of them are Slavic haplogroups.

 

[DejaVu]

Arberesh dont exist as self-proclaimed identity.


Arberesh is of Norman origin.
When the Normans arrived in Albania during the thirteenth century they called the region Arborea and reffered to the people as forest dwellers.

The Italo-Albanian Villages of southern Italy,
by George Nicholas Nasse

 

[Fustan]

Arberesh dont exist as self-proclaimed identity.


Arberesh is of Norman origin.
When the Normans arrived in Albania during the thirteenth century they called the region Arborea and reffered to the people as forest dwellers.

The Italo-Albanian Villages of southern Italy,
by George Nicholas Nasse

Incel svennejävel. Gå och säg det till en Arberesh, se om du har tänderna kvar.

 

[Sile]

Incel svennejävel. Gå och säg det till en Arberesh, se om du har tänderna kvar.

Your cheap by swearing at people.

 

[Angela]

No insults or "fighting words" or I'll issue infractions.

@Deja Vu

I don't have any idea what your comment means. If you're going to make a statement like that, provide a citation to the work where you found it, and quote from the work, so we can understand the point.

 

[Yetos]

What? Where Arvanites settled, majority is E-V13, J2b or R1b-L23. I2 exists all over Greece (R1a too). Both of them are Slavic haplogroups.

do not mix Albanians with Arbanites and Arberesh,

there is almpost 0 J2b where Arvanites setlle,
and V-13 is low, about 10-15% as normal distribution to almost south Balkans,
not like Albania,

 

[LeBrok]

Incel svennejävel. Gå och säg det till en Arberesh, se om du har tänderna kvar.

English is required to communicate with others on Eupedia, otherwise use PM.

 

[Trojet]

do not mix Albanians with Arbanites and Arberesh,

there is almpost 0 J2b where Arvanites setlle,
and V-13 is low, about 10-15% as normal distribution to almost south Balkans,
not like Albania,

Seriously! Do not mix them up huh...
Why would you say that, just because your Greek friend "Dienekes" said so?

First of all we don't have any scientific studies regarding Y-DNA of Arvanites. You are either lying or don't even know the Y-DNA make up of your own country when you claim there is almost 0% J2b where Arvanites settled.
You might want to check this out:
"J2b-M102 shows a higher frequency in Euboea (9.4%), with the majority of haplotypes belonging to the J2b-M241 sub-branch (77.8%). On the other hand Korinthia shows a frequency of haplogroup J2b-M241 of 5.5%, with all haplotypes belonging to the J2b-M241 lineage"
Source: http://amsdottorato.cib.unibo.it/3628/1/Anagnostou_Paolo_tesi.pdf

Do you want another proof? Well, check this out also:
http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?1244-J2b2-(J-M241)&p=165500&viewfull=1#post165500

Also when it comes to Arberesh, just because they currently *may* have low J2b2 percentages according to one study, doesn't mean much. First of all, most came from southern Albania, so they didn't represent the whole Albanian population. If not many J2b2's left for Italy then of course the percentage will be low. Secondly, it's pretty clear Arberesh have experienced a genetic drift in the last 600 years or so. An example: Haplogroup E1b (non V13) which is common in southern Italy is 13% among Arberesh, while among Albanians is pretty much non-existent. Besides, I know at least two Arberesh who are J2b2, and one of them is a member of our Albanian project at FTDNA.

 

[Yetos]

Seriously! Do not mix them up huh...
Why would you say that, just because your Greek friend "Dienekes" said so?

First of all we don't have any scientific studies regarding Y-DNA of Arvanites. You are either lying or don't even know the Y-DNA make up of your own country when you claim there is almost 0% J2b where Arvanites settled.
You might want to check this out:
"J2b-M102 shows a higher frequency in Euboea (9.4%), with the majority of haplotypes belonging to the J2b-M241 sub-branch (77.8%). On the other hand Korinthia shows a frequency of haplogroup J2b-M241 of 5.5%, with all haplotypes belonging to the J2b-M241 lineage"
Source: http://amsdottorato.cib.unibo.it/3628/1/Anagnostou_Paolo_tesi.pdf

Do you want another proof? Well, check this out also:
http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?1244-J2b2-(J-M241)&p=165500&viewfull=1#post165500

Also when it comes to Arberesh, just because they currently *may* have low J2b2 percentages according to one study, doesn't mean much. First of all, most came from southern Albania, so they didn't represent the whole Albanian population. If not many J2b2's left for Italy then of course the percentage will be low. Secondly, it's pretty clear Arberesh have experienced a genetic drift in the last 600 years or so. An example: Haplogroup E1b (non V13) which is common in southern Italy is 13% among Arberesh, while among Albanians is pretty much non-existent. Besides, I know at least two Arberesh who are J2b2, and one of them is a member of our Albanian project at FTDNA.

Arberesh are 3 certain villages in Italy.
all the others are Albanians to Italy.
Corinth was never settled by Arbanites,
search better,
as for Evoia not all is Arbanitan,
and I know all Arbanitochoria there, and I slept in many of them,
I guess you vnever went there.

 

[Fustan]

Where arvanites settled, fits well with the y-dna distribution of the major Albanian y-dnas (EV13, R1b and J2b2)

 

[LABERIA]

Arberesh are 3 certain villages in Italy.
all the others are Albanians to Italy.
Corinth was never settled by Arbanites,
search better,
as for Evoia not all is Arbanitan,
and I know all Arbanitochoria there, and I slept in many of them,
I guess you vnever went there.

Again you are in accurate in what you say. Before the creation of the greek nation and state, Peloponneso, Attica, part of Thessaly and part of Greek islands were inhabitated mostly by Albanians, i.e. Arvanites. These territories were just a continuation of Toskëria, i.e.South Albania. What's happened later after the creation of greek state is another story.

 

[Yetos]

Again you are in accurate in what you say. Before the creation of the greek nation and state, Peloponneso, Attica, part of Thessaly and part of Greek islands were inhabitated mostly by Albanians, i.e. Arvanites. These territories were just a continuation of Toskëria, i.e.South Albania. What's happened later after the creation of greek state is another story.

and again you dream,
just find all the census,
and find all the villages,

Greece is not Albania,
and everybody is not shamed, or fear to say his origin,

infact I suggest you to find Orlov's revolt, and Kolokotronis memories,
it will help you.

oh and tell your publications,
how many books they sell?
cause we know who lived where,
he does not,
max of Albanian admixture by census of 1860's is 1.5%
c u


JUST HAVE A LOOK HERE

https://books.google.gr/books?id=PC...=gbs_selected_pages&cad=3#v=onepage&q&f=false

as for Thessaly, again you say what your publications claims, without check
At Thessaly no Albanian moved, only Remenii and Moschopolites,
Thessaly is the heaviest area of Aromani-Vlach population,
and had strong Slavic influence, that even today is obvious
now go to American bank of Albania and tell them to find more accurate numbers,
cause Lithoxoou publications made even the slavic villages of Acarnania as Albanian
karaiskakis and kolokotronis Albanians etc etc
for example does a village named Podolovitsa sound Albanian to you?
cause that village it is baptised as Albanian as many many others