Politics EU Frontex and Illegal immigration,

[Yetos]

Do you have Greek statistics about refugees?

yes,

arrested Illegal immigrants, (only these who are captured) 2013-2014

arrested boat owners, slave merchants or conductors

ten years report

after Greek crisis that number is reduce, but still is from 5-10% each year,
NOT EVEN BIRTH RATES REACH THAT NUMBERS


under 30/04/2015 (end of April)

may I remind you that these are only the ones that are captured!!!!!!!!! not the ones who manage to pass without caught




and you can call me again lame

this are the number of the ones who had returned back from 01/01/2015 to 30/04/2015 by EU/Frontex money, (cost to return is upon EU and local country)

exit does not always mean back to home, but can mean forward to another country,
for example Syrrians moved to France after acceptance of relatives there


illegal immigrants origins as declared or identified from 01/01 to 30/04/2015

you want more Data my friend?


ok the bellow is how many ask assylum and decided to live permanent in Greece

it is older 5 years but can be used for your statistical search




http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affair...120229_statistics2009_gr_version_final_el.pdf


caution

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statis...,_2014_(number,_rounded_figures)_YB15_III.png

the last may trick you,
for example I enter in SPAIN but since Eu I can ask assylum from Poland, although I am in Spain


PS
you still avoid to answer me

 

[Vallicanus]

My position is that every country should have a right to set their immigration policy. Regardless, wasn't the argument about a reason behind immigration? What unemployment in Europe has to do with it?

The thread title does not mention reasons for immigration.

 

[Kardu]

What is the reason you came to Spain?

You want me to give you a report on my life decisions? The reasons why currently I am mainly in Western Europe don't concern you.
And because you snooped my ip few times doesn't mean that I "came to Spain". Got it Aristotle?

 

[LeBrok]

You want me to give you a report on my life decisions? The reasons why currently I am mainly in Western Europe don't concern you.
And because you snooped my ip few times doesn't mean that I "came to Spain". Got it Aristotle?

How about being honest? Can you do that?

 

[Kardu]

How about being honest? Can you do that?

Whatever the reason it's not economical, and that's enough for the topic of the thread.
Being honest? What? Do I owe an explanation to you?! I advise you not to go personal next time.

 

[LeBrok]

Whatever the reason it's not economical, and that's enough for the topic of the thread.
Being honest? What? Do I owe an explanation to you?! I advise you not to go personal next time.

Thank you Advisor Kardu. Judging by your honesty in the past, we need to reverse your statement to be true.

Anyway, economy wasn't really an issue, or just part of it. The question was whether you emigrated there to improve your life? You just narrowed it down to economy only. Unless you were sent by company to work there, or got drunk and accidentally woke up in Spain, you were (are) like the rest of emigrants trying to improve a life, let it be economically, politically or romantically. What is surprising, that being emigrant, you treat immigrants worse than local people do.

 

[LeBrok]

yes,

arrested Illegal immigrants, (only these who are captured) 2013-2014

arrested boat owners, slave merchants or conductors

ten years report

after Greek crisis that number is reduce, but still is from 5-10% each year,
NOT EVEN BIRTH RATES REACH THAT NUMBERS


under 30/04/2015 (end of April)

may I remind you that these are only the ones that are captured!!!!!!!!! not the ones who manage to pass without caught




and you can call me again lame

this are the number of the ones who had returned back from 01/01/2015 to 30/04/2015 by EU/Frontex money, (cost to return is upon EU and local country)

exit does not always mean back to home, but can mean forward to another country,
for example Syrrians moved to France after acceptance of relatives there


illegal immigrants origins as declared or identified from 01/01 to 30/04/2015

you want more Data my friend?


ok the bellow is how many ask assylum and decided to live permanent in Greece

it is older 5 years but can be used for your statistical search




http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affair...120229_statistics2009_gr_version_final_el.pdf


caution

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statis...,_2014_(number,_rounded_figures)_YB15_III.png

the last may trick you,
for example I enter in SPAIN but since Eu I can ask assylum from Poland, although I am in Spain


PS
you still avoid to answer me

I can't see the pictures you posted and can't read Greek.
So what are the official number of refugees for Greece? If you willing to translate.

I'm not sure what last table you posted shows, there is no description. But anyhow, the numbers for Greece are low again. Quite with agreement with maps posted above. In this case I'm not sure what are you arguing about? Do you agree with these numbers?

 

[Yetos]

I can't see the pictures you posted and can't read Greek.
So what are the official number of refugees for Greece? If you willing to translate.

I'm not sure what last table you posted shows, there is no description. But anyhow, the numbers for Greece are low again. Quite with agreement with maps posted above. In this case I'm not sure what are you arguing about? Do you agree with these numbers?

the numbers are low?

if we except Malta, the number are compatible with Italy per population,

NUMBERS CAN NOT BE TRANSLATED,

so this bellow can you see it?
it is only the arrested illegal immigrants, from 2006 to 2014,
I REPEAT ILLEGAL, NOT LEGAL,
watch 2008,
IT IS LIKE USA ARREST 4 500 000 ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS PER YEAR
OR GERMANY ARREST 1 100 000 ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS PER YEAR
or your favorite Poland arrest 500 000 illegal immigrants per year
ARE THESE NUMBERS SMALL?
WHAT WILL BE COMPARABLE TO YOU?
TO ENTER 10 000 000 PER YEAR IN A COUNTRY OF 10 000 000 ?
we SPEAK ABOUT 1 000 000 ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS in 8 years meaning with analogy 10% of population
it is like Poland had arrest 3 900 000 in 8 years about 4 600 000 in 10 years
ok TELL ME WHICH EUROPEAN COUNTRY EXCEPT MALTA AND ITALY and a bit of SPAIN HAS SUCH ANALOGIES?

the blue column is the Illegal immigrants,
the red are the arrested 'traffickers' - 'conductors'
and among them are also few from my country, since money are always 'welcome' everywhere

source/link

http://www.astynomia.gr/images/stor...pwn/4_statistics_all_2015_all&dia_apo2006.JPG

photo

source / link the official Greek police (αστυνομια)


http://www.astynomia.gr/index.php?o...='..'&perform=view&id=50610&Itemid=1240&lang=

other usefull sources but little bit older

Eurostat

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statis...,_2014_(number,_rounded_figures)_YB15_III.png

EUgovermentals

http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/what-we-do/


and because you will tell me that FRONTEX and generally EU send back the refuggees if they admit to go back,
watch the numbers, not the countries,
these are how many went back the first 4 months of 2015
total 7230 went back home the first 4 months of 2015
so EU paid Euros for arrest them, to conserve them healthy as long they stayed, and to send them back!!!
no need to watch colours, they are the countries of the admited Id

source/link

http://www.astynomia.gr/images/stor...allodapwn/4_statistics_all_2015_apelaseis.JPG

photo

NOW WATCH HOW MANY ENTERED
the same time, first 4 months of 2015
total 36 172 in the same period when 7230 went back.
no need to watch colours, they are the countries that they admit that they came from

source/link
http://www.astynomia.gr/images/stor...pwn/4_statistics_all_2015_sull_yphkoothta.JPG

photo

and I ask,
these man ask asylum not only from Greece, but from every West or EU embassy that is in Greece,
but mostly are rejected and they 'sunk' in Greece, searching an id that will overpass Soengen treaties
or new 'traffickers' that will send them to West paradise,
so my question,
should rest EU countries that do not had such problem, share the weight of Malta Greece Italy etc and accept these people, at least temporary?
for example should Poland that has not such problem accept temporary 500 000 from Italy that has more than 5 500 000 and about a comparable population?
or we call again upon Soengen treaties and let them rot there, and sunk the countries of the problem?

or we should them all to Lampedousa the Ellis island of EU?

I try to connect each photo with a link
for any kind of translation or questions, plz free to ask


ok something to understand better
source link

http://www.euro2day.gr/news/highlig...ssalonikh-sta-heria-astynomikon-29-atoma.html

text
Γενικής Αστυνομικής Διεύθυνσης Θεσσαλονίκης
οκτώ αλλοδαποί, οι οποίοι δεν κατείχαν τα απαραίτητα έγγραφα για τη νόμιμη παραμονή τους στη χώρα

translation
Police headquarters of Thessaloniki
eight foreigners that had no needed papers for legal residence, stay, existance in country,

as you see illegal immigrants were caught not in borders, but in a big city, probably had a dwell also, and nobody knows how they entered and when, and maybe from where they come from, after few days they might give correct Data of id,
as you see, it not only the ones who are caught, but also the ones who are not caught, or pass,
for the story, just an add to mention
before few days a big heroin baron dealer (not a junkie) was caught in a University assylum (all universities in Greece have police Assylum after the effort of Junda to arrest academics) sleeping in the floor among other illegal immigrants,
strange in the case, he has EU country citizenship, (no need to mention) he is wanted in EU, Europole Interpole knew he was abroad from EU (last exit from EU recorded at passport) and yet he was in EU through that process, the illegal immigration
and he was planning to go back to his country in central north Europe, by asking assylum!!!!
I mention that just for fun,

 

[Kardu]

Thank you Advisor Kardu. Judging by your honesty in the past, we need to reverse your statement to be true.

Anyway, economy wasn't really an issue, or just part of it. The question was whether you emigrated there to improve your life? You just narrowed it down to economy only. Unless you were sent by company to work there, or got drunk and accidentally woke up in Spain, you were (are) like the rest of emigrants trying to improve a life, let it be economically, politically or romantically. What is surprising, that being emigrant, you treat immigrants worse than local people do.

To you as a leftist, people are interchangeable cogs: Georgian, Spanish, Greek, Chinese, Hindu, Arab are all the same.
You make no difference among those who respect the host nation, adore its culture, wish it to keep and strengthen its identity and those who come to exploit its wealth and are often hostile to its past and future.
So it's pointless to discuss this issue with you.

Still a rhetorical question: how many more should come and be accepted? As their numbers grow they gonna transform Europe into very societies they were running from in the first place...

 

[LeBrok]

the numbers are low?

if we except Malta, the number are compatible with Italy per population,

NUMBERS CAN NOT BE TRANSLATED,

so this bellow can you see it?
it is only the arrested illegal immigrants, from 2006 to 2014,
I REPEAT ILLEGAL, NOT LEGAL,
watch 2008,
IT IS LIKE USA ARREST 4 500 000 ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS PER YEAR
OR GERMANY ARREST 1 100 000 ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS PER YEAR
or your favorite Poland arrest 500 000 illegal immigrants per year
,

Yetos, I tried, I really tried, to have a valid discussion with you but I can't continue this when you pull numbers from a thin air. I was googling for a while to find out about this 500 000 illegal immigrants a year in Poland, you alleged. There is no such number. It is estimating that there might be from 0.5 to 1 million illegal immigrants in Poland in total, accumulated through all the years. No way half a million comes every year! Looks like you are reading something and somehow your imagination takes off creating a parallel universe. We know you are "somewhat" incoherent in your style of writing, I can soldier through this, but please stop invent numbers.


I wouldn't be surprised if Germans or Swedes start lamenting about overwhelming immigration. Greeks don't have much of a reason yet. When I listened to you for these years, I had a mental picture in my head, that every second person in Greece is illegal immigrant.

 

[LeBrok]

To you as a leftist, people are interchangeable cogs: Georgian, Spanish, Greek, Chinese, Hindu, Arab are all the same.
You make no difference among those who respect the host nation, adore its culture, wish it to keep and strengthen its identity and those who come to exploit its wealth and are often hostile to its past and future.

Tell me how would you recognize which immigrant is coming to exploit and which is coming to work hard and be a good citizen? To be honest, we don't know if you are not exploiting Spanish hospitality either. Knowing how shifty, arrogant and intolerant you are in our conversions, I wouldn't be surprised if you are not honest and true to your host country and its people. As you mentioned beforehand, by your standards of treatment of races and ethnicity, they are Spanish and you are Georgian, a different people. You don't need to be honest to some strangers, right?

 

[Yetos]

Yetos, I tried, I really tried, to have a valid discussion with you but I can't continue this when you pull numbers from a thin air. I was googling for a while to find out about this 500 000 illegal immigrants a year in Poland, you alleged. There is no such number. It is estimating that there might be from 0.5 to 1 million illegal immigrants in Poland in total, accumulated through all the years. No way half a million comes every year! Looks like you are reading something and somehow your imagination takes off creating a parallel universe. We know you are "somewhat" incoherent in your style of writing, I can soldier through this, but please stop invent numbers.


I wouldn't be surprised if Germans or Swedes start lamenting about overwhelming immigration. Greeks don't have much of a reason yet. When I listened to you for these years, I had a mental picture in my head, that every second person in Greece is illegal immigrant.

Lebrok
either my English are bad, either something is wrong,
I prefer the first,

I wrote, immigration numbers in Greece per year is like

<<IT IS LIKE USA ARREST 4 500 000 ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS PER YEAR
OR GERMANY ARREST 1 100 000 ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS PER YEAR
or your favorite Poland arrest 500 000 illegal immigrants per year>>

and not Poland has 500 000 per year,






ok can you see that picture now?

it is the annual arrest of illegal immigrants per year by Greek police and Frontex in Greece

numbers of years or number of quantities, do not need translation,
think that Greece has a population of 10-11 000 000 and divide to understand % per year, and per 10 years
it is more than 10% every 10 years, and we did not say about immigrants, cause Germany or France or England might have more but legaly,
we speak about ILLEGAL. and that is happening from 1990,

 

[Kardu]

Tell me how would you recognize which immigrant is coming to exploit and which is coming to work hard and be a good citizen? To be honest, we don't know if you are not exploiting Spanish hospitality either. Knowing how shifty, arrogant and intolerant you are in our conversions, I wouldn't be surprised if you are not honest and true to your host country and its people. As you mentioned beforehand, by your standards of treatment of races and ethnicity, they are Spanish and you are Georgian, a different people. You don't need to be honest to some strangers, right?

Going personal again, aren't we? With false accusations and insinuations. So cheap... But then again what else one can expect from a totalitarian leftist

 

[Yetos]

Yetos, I tried, I really tried, to have a valid discussion with you but I can't continue this when you pull numbers from a thin air. I was googling for a while to find out about this 500 000 illegal immigrants a year in Poland, you alleged. There is no such number. It is estimating that there might be from 0.5 to 1 million illegal immigrants in Poland in total, accumulated through all the years. No way half a million comes every year! Looks like you are reading something and somehow your imagination takes off creating a parallel universe. We know you are "somewhat" incoherent in your style of writing, I can soldier through this, but please stop invent numbers.


I wouldn't be surprised if Germans or Swedes start lamenting about overwhelming immigration. Greeks don't have much of a reason yet. When I listened to you for these years, I had a mental picture in my head, that every second person in Greece is illegal immigrant.

again you tell me nothing,
nothing at all,
your negativity is just expressed through others,

1) Germans and Swedish who you mention not me have low unemployment, good economics, and high salaries, have lower degree of migration per year, but bigger in time, meaning better assimilation,
2) on controversary ex-East Europe Eu countries have no immigration with better economics and low unemployment but do not suffer cause they are away from burning zones,
3) either when someone is showing the moon you see the finger, either you are deaf and blind by your own will, cause fits you,
majority of illegal immigrants in Greece do not want to live in Greece, they ask assylum from other European countries or USA,
simply they sunk here, cause of schoegen treaties, but the weight is bigger, it works like Ellis island,
so in Greece live 1 800 000 illegal immigrants who ask assylum for Denmark for example,
That means Illegal immigrants are forced to live in Greece, due to the Rules of EU, something that is outrageous,
why the rest Europe does not help to carry the weight of asking assylum intruders?

anyway your ironic demand on asking numbers to be translated, your refusal to see the core of the problem, and your irrelevant extraneous compatibility with others which had, have, BUT PRODUCE the problem shows clearly who is lamment and who is hiding the dust bellow the carpet,

anyway this people want to go elsewhere, not to stay here, or Malta or southern Italy
and I believe that denying the problem is not solving it,
Besides if there is no soladarity in EU problems, why schoegen to exist?

offcourse I am not expecting something from someone in Canada,
but the late FRONTEX reports ring the bell for Hungary and Croatia !!!!

so the problem is moving,
besides who cares, EU taxes come to Malta Greece Italy to conserve and preserve these people

 

[LeBrok]

Going personal again, aren't we? With false accusations and insinuations. So cheap... But then again what else one can expect from a totalitarian leftist

Telling us about your marital-ethnic preferences wasn't personal, but to state your reason for emigration is? Shifty again.

You conveniently skipped the none personal part too.
Tell me how would you recognize which immigrant is coming to exploit and which is coming to work hard and be a good citizen?

 

[LeBrok]

so in Greece live 1 800 000 illegal immigrants who ask assylum for Denmark for example,

I can't find anything to confirm this figure. Perhaps you are talking about 1.5 million of Albanians in Greece?

 

[Kardu]

Telling us about your marital-ethnic preferences wasn't personal, but to state your reason for emigration is? Shifty again.

You conveniently skipped the none personal part too.
Tell me how would you recognize which immigrant is coming to exploit and which is coming to work hard and be a good citizen?

"Marital-Ethnic preferences" referred to the topic of the thread. And there too it was you who brought the conversation on the personal level (based on snooped ip addresses) remember?

To start with tell me first why on earth Europe should accept culturally and ethnically unrelated migrants in the first place?

 

[LeBrok]

"Marital-Ethnic preferences" referred to the topic of the thread. And there too it was you who brought the conversation on the personal level (based on snooped ip addresses) remember?

Snooped? By Eupedia's rule you have to disclose your location. Again, in this department, you are shifty too. Makes me think that you are illegally in Spain, therefore afraid of disclosing it.

To start with tell me first why on earth Europe should accept culturally and ethnically unrelated migrants in the first place?

You should know that, they accepted you, assuming you are legally there.

 

[Vallicanus]

Snooped? By Eupedia's rule you have to disclose your location. Again, in this department, you are shifty too. Makes me think that you are illegally in Spain, therefore afraid of disclosing it.

You should know that, they accepted you, assuming you are legally there.

I think Kardu is ethnically and culturally closer to Europeans than Somalis or Nigerians, etc.

 

[LeBrok]

I think Kardu is ethnically and culturally closer to Europeans than Somalis or Nigerians, etc.

I'm not sure if he will be particularly pleased with your statement. It denotes him as not really European. Regardless where geographically they are, most Georgians see themselves as Europeans. He is very touchy on this subject, so better apologies to him quickly, if you don't want to loose a friend.

I never questioned similarities or cultural differences or polices of countries involved in immigration matter. I have my opinion on these, but it is a different issue. I only questioned Kardu's lack of compassion to emigrants (among his many discriminatory treatments of peoples) in light of himself being an immigrant. I also questioned Yeto's exaggeration of immigration problem in Greece.