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If hg. IJ folks were Cro-magnon who were R* folks?

What are you talking about? Turks ARE just TURKS and Hungarians ARE also East Asiatic people. They like it or not! They speak all Turkic languages, if they want to become something else they should start to forget their language firtst and start to learn, Greek, Armenian, Arabic or Kurdic for my part.


There was no such thing as ‘elite dominance‘ of Iranic folks in Kurdistan, since Zagros Mountains in Kurdistan were always populated by (proto-)Iranic folks and always attracted without any problem Iranic tribes en mass from the region. Also to MANY Iranic tribes lived in Kurdistan.
Also it’s a fact that since the 1000 years BC. For at least 3000 years Kurdistan was nonstop populated by Iranic tribes. First Mitanni, then the Medes then the Parthians and then the ancient Kurds. All these folks (names) are actually the same and refer to same modern population the Kurds!

Kurds are TRIBALIC folks and ALL Kurdish TRIBES have direct links to their ancient Median (Iranic) TRIBES! It's impossible to impose 'elite dominance' on such a TRIBALIC community.

The same thing is with Ossetians, they speak an Iranic language and they’re genetically very close to other Iranic folks around them. Of course they’re Iranic people!
 
If Kurds and Ossetians are not Iranic, than Germans are NOT Germanic, French are NOT Celtic, Italians are NOT Italic, Arabs & Assyrians are NOT Semitic and Turks are NOT Turkic & Hungarians are NOT Hunnic. We're all one big family, right? NONSENSE!

So, don't buy this stupid Turkic, Assyrian (and other Kurdish HATERS) propaganda! And that's nothing but PROPAGANDA! Persians, Ossetians, Kurds are Iranic as you can get. That's a FACT and all scholars and anthropologists agree on that!
 
Turks ARE just TURKS and Hungarians ARE also East Asiatic people
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A very small fraction of the average Turk's and Hungarian's autosomal DNA is mongoloid. Kurds and Persian are likewise mostly not of 100% Indo-European ancestry. Both the haplogroups and physical appearance confirm this. Less than 25% of Kurds have light eyes. Which is really low for supposed descendants of Indo-Europeans. All the evidence suggests that the rulers of Persia were ethnically distinct from the masses, but over time the whole population adopted a common ethnic label. Wherever Indo-Europeans went, they left genes for light features so you cannot possibly argue that proto-Indo-Europeans didn't have them.
 
Also it’s a fact that since the 1000 years BC. For at least 3000 years Kurdistan was nonstop populated by Iranic tribes. First Mitanni, then the Medes then the Parthians and then the ancient Kurds. All these folks (names) are actually the same and refer to same modern population the Kurds!
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The Indo-European invasions happened before 1000 BC you know. By that time, enough mixing could have happened to create a common identity, but right after the invasions it is logical to suspect that the elites were ethnically distinct from the rest of the population (just like in India and in Europe).
 
Templar said:
A very small fraction of the average Turk's and Hungarian's autosomal DNA is mongoloid. Kurds and Persian are likewise mostly not of 100% Indo-European ancestry. Both the haplogroups and physical appearance confirm this. Less than 25% of Kurds have light eyes. Which is really low for supposed descendants of Indo-Europeans. All the evidence suggests that the rulers of Persia were ethnically distinct from the masses, but over time the whole population adopted a common ethnic label. Wherever Indo-Europeans went, they left genes for light features so you cannot possibly argue that proto-Indo-Europeans didn't have them.
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If you look at Turkic DNA you can trace their roots to Central and East Asia. There’s EVIDENCE in their DNA that they’re from the ALTAI, Turks speak Turkic, their ORIGIN in the ALTAI and as long they do speak Turkic they will be Turkic. The same is with the Hungarians.
 
If you look at Turkic DNA you can trace their roots to Central and East Asia. There’s EVIDENCE in their DNA that they’re from the ALTAI, Turks speak Turkic, their ORIGIN in the ALTAI and as long they do speak Turkic they will be Turkic. The same is with the Hungarians.
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So you are saying that a small number of nomads completely exterminated the millions of Greeks and Armenians that were living in Anatolia? That seems highly unlikely. Mass conversion over time is much more likely, and the Turkish haplogroup data suggest that as well. Just because someone considers themselves Turkish, doesn't mean they genetically are. Just like how most North Africans consider themselves Arab, yet very few are so genetically.
 
Templar said:
The Indo-European invasions happened before 1000 BC you know. By that time, enough mixing could have happened to create a common identity, but right after the invasions it is logical to suspect that the elites were ethnically distinct from the rest of the population (just like in India and in Europe).
Click to expand...
ONCE AGAIN: Kurds have a TRIBALIC community and ALL Kurdish TRIBES have direct links to their ancient Median (Iranic) TRIBES! It's impossible to impose 'elite dominance' on such a TRIBALIC community.

Of course are Kurds NOT of 'pure blood'. NOBODY is 'pure'. Kurds (Medes, Iranic people) mixed a little bit with Semitic folks, like Jews and Chaldeans. But these Jews & Chaldeans didn’t change Kurdish ethnography, origins (roots), history, language.
With other words Kurds are still Kurds.
 
Templar said:
So you are saying that a small number of nomads completely exterminated the millions of Greeks and Armenians that were living in Anatolia? That seems highly unlikely. Mass conversion over time is much more likely, and the Turkish haplogroup data suggest that as well. Just because someone considers themselves Turkish, doesn't mean they genetically are. Just like how most North Africans consider themselves Arab, yet very few are so genetically.
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Are MODERN Germans 'Germanic'? Are MODERN French people 'Celtic'? Is MODERN Italian population 'Italic' ? Are MODERN Arabs/Assyrians 'Semitic'?

YES. YES, YES and YES, as much as Turks are 'Turkic', Hungarians are 'Hunnic', Arabs & Assyrians are 'Semitic'.

Arabs/Assyrians are mixed with Kurds, Armenians and Turks and still they are ARABS/Semites.

Turks are mixed withpeople from the Balkans, Greeks, Armenians, Kurds, Persians, Arabs and still they're Turkic!

Arabs ARE Semitic, Turks ARE Turkic and Kurds ARE Iranic. FACT!
 
Goga said:
ONCE AGAIN: Kurds have a TRIBALIC community and ALL Kurdish TRIBES have direct links to their ancient Median (Iranic) TRIBES! It's impossible to impose 'elite dominance' on such a TRIBALIC community.

Of course are Kurds NOT of 'pure blood'. NOBODY is 'pure'. Kurds (Medes, Iranic people) mixed a little bit with Semitic folks, like Jews and Chaldeans. But these Jews & Chaldeans didn’t change Kurdish ethnography, origins (roots), history, language.
With other words Kurds are still Kurds.
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I already explained that. Originally there WAS elite dominance, but it disappeared in the last few thousand years. I am talking about genetics and phenotypes. The tribalism started after the immediate period of conquest, after enough mixing happened.
 
Goga said:
Are MODERN Germans 'Germanic'? Are MODERN French people 'Celtic'? Is MODERN Italian population 'Italic' ? Are MODERN Arabs/Assyrians 'Semitic'?

YES. YES, YES and YES, as much as Turks are 'Turkic', Hungarians are 'Hunnic', Arabs & Assyrians are 'Semitic'.

Arabs/Assyrians are mixed with Kurds, Armenians and Turks and still they are ARABS/Semites.

Turks are mixed withpeople from the Balkans, Greeks, Armenians, Kurds, Persians, Arabs and still they're Turkic!

Arabs ARE Semitic, Turks ARE Turkic and Kurds ARE Iranic. FACT!
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You are talking about culture and national identity. This thread is about the genetics of the original R1a/R1b people. Note that it is called "If hg IJ (read as "I") folks were Cro-Magnons who were R folks". Lets try to get back on topic, shall we? I mean that with no disrespect. I wish your people get their country, and hopefully defeat the forces who prevent that. But this about genetics, not nationality and culture.
 
Templar said:
I already explained that. Originally there WAS elite dominance, but it disappeared in the last few thousand years. I am talking about genetics and phenotypes. The tribalism started after the immediate period of conquest, after enough mixing happened.
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NO, if you speak about 'elite dominance' it was in the Balkans by the Ottomans (Turks). Only the rulers spoke Turkic (and f*cked Slavic women) while common people spoke Slavic. When Ottomans left the rulers in the Balkans started to speak Slavic again.

And we all know how ancient Medes (Iranic tribes) looked like 3000 years ago, they looked like modern KURDS! Ancient Greeks described them, also they are statues, coins left from that era etc...

Both of you, either you are not very smart or not very much educated. I’m done we you both on this issue!

 
NO, if you speak about 'elite dominance' it was in the Balkans by the Ottomans (Turks). only the rulers spoke Turkic while common people spoke Slavic. When Ottomans left the rulers in the Balkans started to speak Slavic again\
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The Turks were in the Balkans for less than 500 years, while the Indo-European tribes that created Persia were there for thousands. There is a huge difference between them. You are only using the Turks as an example because I am Bosnian. Wow, very clever.
And we all know hou ancient Medes looked like 3000 years ago, they looked like modern KURDS!
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3000 years ago wasn't when the conquest happened! It is thought to have have been 4000 years ago. So ofcourse the ones from 3000 years ago were already one solid ethnic group, they had 1000 years to mix and to assimilate each other.

Both of you, either you are not very smart or not very much educated. I’m done we you on this issue!
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Name-calling won't give you victory. I've tried to be friendly with you, and to empathize with your situation (Kurdistan being divided by 4 different countries) and yet this is how you respond. As the old saying goes: "Give them a finger, and they'll take the whole hand".
 
Templar said:
3000 years ago wasn't when the conquest happened! It is thought to have have been 4000 years ago. So ofcourse the ones from 3000 years ago were already one solid ethnic group, they had 1000 years to mix and to assimilate each other.

Name-calling won't give you victory. I've tried to be friendly with you, and to empathize with your situation (Kurdistan being divided by 4 different countries) and yet this is how you respond. As the old saying goes: "Give them a finger, and they'll take the whole hand".
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Kurds have no friends but mountains. I don't give a f*ck about friendship. We're warrior people and we will got back what belonged to our ancestors. We don't need anybody for it!

Kurds live in a TRIBALIC community and ALL Kurdish TRIBES have direct links to their ancient Median (Iranic) TRIBES! Our tribes don't have any links with the Semitic, Turkic etc. speaking tribes, but only DIRECT links with IRANIC tribes. There's no Kurdish tribe that says that their ancestors were Semitic, there're ONLY Kurdish tribes that say that their ancestros were Iranic.
 
Goga said:

Kurds have no friends but mountains. I don't give a f*ck about friendship. We're warrior people and we will got back what belonged to our ancestors. We don't need anybody for it!

Kurds live in a TRIBALIC community and ALL Kurdish TRIBES have direct links to their ancient Median (Iranic) TRIBES! Our tribes don't have any links with the Semitic, Turkic etc. speaking tribes, but only DIRECT links with IRANIC tribes. There's no Kurdish tribe that says that their ancestors were Semitic, there're ONLY Kurdish tribes that say that their ancestros were Iranic.
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What then happened to the native people of Iran and Kurdistan?
 
Templar said:
What then happened to the native people of Iran and Kurdistan?
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Native people of Kurdistan were proto-Kurds. It's that simple. They weren't Semitc speakers in that region like Arabs and Assyrians are, they were not Turkic speakers like modernday Turks are etc.

Before 'modern' Iranic tribes (Persians, Medes etc.) ever existed native people of Kurdistan/Zagros mountains and in the area south of the Caspian Sea were all proto-Iranic .

And of course Kurds aint no pure blooded. But NOBODY is pure! Kurds have been always living in a region of many ethnicities. Elamites in the Gulf region and proto-Armenian tribes in the West Anatolian Moutains were always Kurdish neighbours. They lived always next to each other. The thing is that the ancient non-Iranic folks (proto-Armenians) didn't change Kurdish ethnicity that much that Kurds lost their original (Iranic) ethnicity (roots).
 
Goga said:
NO, if you speak about 'elite dominance' it was in the Balkans by the Ottomans (Turks). Only the rulers spoke Turkic (and f*cked Slavic women) while common people spoke Slavic. When Ottomans left the rulers in the Balkans started to speak Slavic again.

And we all know how ancient Medes (Iranic tribes) looked like 3000 years ago, they looked like modern KURDS! Ancient Greeks described them, also they are statues, coins left from that era etc...

Both of you, either you are not very smart or not very much educated. I’m done we you both on this issue!
Click to expand...

Goga said:
Kurds have no friends but mountains. I don't give a f*ck about friendship. We're warrior people and we will got back what belonged to our ancestors. We don't need anybody for it!

Kurds live in a TRIBALIC community and ALL Kurdish TRIBES have direct links to their ancient Median (Iranic) TRIBES! Our tribes don't have any links with the Semitic, Turkic etc. speaking tribes, but only DIRECT links with IRANIC tribes. There's no Kurdish tribe that says that their ancestors were Semitic, there're ONLY Kurdish tribes that say that their ancestros were Iranic.
Click to expand...

This has certainly gone too far. Banned.
 
People with an agenda are never interested in truth, quite contrary...
 
Goga said:
Native people of Kurdistan were proto-Kurds. It's that simple. They weren't Semitc speakers in that region like Arabs and Assyrians are, they were not Turkic speakers like modernday Turks are etc.

Before 'modern' Iranic tribes (Persians, Medes etc.) ever existed native people of Kurdistan/Zagros mountains and in the area south of the Caspian Sea were all proto-Iranic .
Click to expand...

As much as you clearly love to make the Kurds "native", this statement is certainly wrong in the linguistic sense: the earliest known inhabitants of the area of modern Kurdistan were the Hurrians, who spoke a language not closely related with any other language except for Urartian (together forming Hurro-Urartian). Certainly, the area was not the Proto-Iranic homeland, it's far more probable that Proto-Iranic was spoken further to the east, in closer proximity to it's closest relatives: the Nuristani languages of the Hindukush, and the Indic (Indo-Aryan) languages of India. The first Iranic-speaking peoples to reach the region were the Medians, and although it's popular to see the origin of the Kurds with the Medians, this is by no means the only possibility as there is no mention of the Kurds prior the early Medieval Ages.

What I might add, before anybody mentions the Mitanni, is that the "Mitanni" loanwords in Hurrian are of Indo-Aryan (Indic) origin, from a language very similar to Vedic Sanskrit.
 
It was just a matter of time that Goga would have been banned. This is not the first time and I doubt it will be the last time. As much as I try to stay "friendly" on him since he belongs to my ethnic group, it is often impossible to have a normal conversation with him. He is mixing to many things up.
 
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