European Tree Names (offtopic from NE autosomal component)

[MOESAN]

érable (maple): breton : 'skaw-gwrac'h'

 

[sparkey]

Adding Cornish names to Moesan's Breton table out of curiosity, after finding a pretty good compilation of words for trees and hedges in Cornish. It's interesting to see similarities...

English	Cornish	Breton (per Moesan)
Oak	dar	derw
Salow/willow	helagon	haleg
Hawthorne	spern	spern-gwenn
Alder	gwernam	gwern
Birch	bedewen	bezw
Strawberry -tree	seavy	plant-sivi
Ash tree	onnen	onn/oulm-gwenn ???
Holly	kelinan	kelen
Hazel wood	collan	kraoñ-kelvez / knaou-garzh
Elm	elaw (I've also heard elowen which has become a Cornish girl's name)	oulm
Blackthorn	dreyn, drannack, or (probably cognate to Breton) yrynen	irin
Rowan tree	kerdhynen	hiliber
Elder	scawan	skaw
Linden / Lime	kalx	tilh / oulm-Spagn

 

[MOESAN]

Thanks Sparkey - I saw you used the singular forms (singulatives upon collectives very often) in place of my collective or plural ones - I saw also you used the one of the three cornish spelling that tries to approach the late cornish speakers (terminal speakers); we can see the hesitation for the equivalent of welsh 'yn'/-'en' and breton '-enn' singulatives: this cornish shows '-en'/'-an'/'-on' for the same thing... the two others spellings, more 'scholar like', are simpler, closer to breton and welsh, it is not to say they help better to guess the genuine pronunciation -
as you say, the shared origin is very evident for the most of the names -
I'll try to put welsh tomorrow
nos vad deoc'h!

 

[MOESAN]

Oak	derw	derw
Salow/willow	haleg	helyg
Hawthorne	spern-gwenn	draen-gwyn
Alder	gwern	gwern
Birch	bezw	beddw
Hornbeam	chalm???	oestrwydd
Chestnut tree	kistin	castan(wydd?)
Dogwood
Maple		masarn /gwniol
Firn? Fern?	raden	rhedyn
Strawberry -tree	plant-sivi	mefis / syfi
Ash tree	onn/oulm-gwenn ???	onn
Beech	faou	ffawydd
Holly	kelen	celyn
Yew	ivin	yw
Horse chesnut tree	kistin-Spagn/kistin-moc'h
Larch	melwez / gwez-tourmantin	llarwydd
Hazel wood	kraoñ-kelvez / knaou-garzh	collen
Walnut tree	kraoñ-gall	cnau Ffrengig
Elm	oulm	llwyf
Sloe	irin	eirin du / draen du
Blackthorn	irin	draen du
Plum tree	prun / irin	eirin
Fir tree	sapin/sapr	ffynidwydd
Rowan tree (mountain ash?)	hiliber	cerddin / pren criafol
Elder	skaw	ysgaw
Linden / Lime	tilh / oulm-Spagn	pisgwydd / palalwyf
Aspen	kren	aethen?

[TD="width: 197"] english
[/TD]
[TD="width: 173"] breton
[/TD]
[TD="width: 112"] welsh
[/TD]
[TD="width: 112"]

[/TD]

 

[MOESAN]

ending -wydd in welsh is for -gwydd (treeS), collective for singulative gwyddyn = coeden - breton: gwez/gwezenn

 

[sparkey]

What is the etymology of Breton "hiliber"? Welsh "cerddin" and Cornish "kerdhynen" are obviously cognates, but "hiliber"?

 

[Armoricain]

Bonjour Sparkey et excusez moi de repondre en français, mais mon anglais est vraiment trop mauvais.
Mais une chance mon breton est meilleur.
J'utillise très souvent un dictionnaire, breton, qui est certainement l'un des plus complets :Le Favereau.
On y trouve beaucoup de comparaisons entre les differentes langues celtiques et beaucoup d'étymologie
On peut y lire, je resume: Hili ber ou ili ber, en vieux breton Elilub : Etiar- ijar

Un trouve un toponyme hillibrennou, qui viendrait mais l'auteur n'en est pas certain de Hili et Prenn
Prenn- lui, bien connu qui signifie arbre d'après le glossaire de Vienne: Prenne = arborem grandem
Voila, si cela peut vous aider.

 

[MOESAN]

Bonjour Sparkey et excusez moi de repondre en français, mais mon anglais est vraiment trop mauvais.
Mais une chance mon breton est meilleur.
J'utillise très souvent un dictionnaire, breton, qui est certainement l'un des plus complets :Le Favereau.
On y trouve beaucoup de comparaisons entre les differentes langues celtiques et beaucoup d'étymologie
On peut y lire, je resume: Hili ber ou ili ber, en vieux breton Elilub : Etiar- ijar

Un trouve un toponyme hillibrennou, qui viendrait mais l'auteur n'en est pas certain de Hili et Prenn
Prenn- lui, bien connu qui signifie arbre d'après le glossaire de Vienne: Prenne = arborem grandem
Voila, si cela peut vous aider.

thanks to Armoricain
'sorbier' is a specie of trees that encompasses 'alisier', 'cormier' in french, trees that produces comestible (eatable) fruits -
for breton 'hiliber' (sing. 'hiliberenn' ) seams the bad form of 'iliber' countaining 'ili' (berries) and per(-enn)= 'pear' ('birn'), a fruit - sometimes 'perili', 'pirili' - I suppose it is a generic term, not too precise (lost of the previous word shared with welsh and cornish -
from the same element, french 'cornouiller' : breton 'gwez(enn) ili-ho'
'prenn' in modern breton has the meaning of "timber", and 'pren(-enn)' "tree" or "wood" or "timber" in welsh -

 

[Yetos]

ok I start a big effort here, maybe not even finish in 1 post,
[TABLE="class: MsoTableGrid, width: 489"]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


[TABLE="class: MsoTableGrid, width: 489"]
[TR]
[TD] English[/TD]
[TD] Ancient Greek[/TD]
[TD] Modern greek[/TD]
[TD] description[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] acacia[/TD]
[TD] akkakia[/TD]
[TD] Ακκακια[/TD]
[TD] From Ακις - ακανθος = thorn[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] oak[/TD]
[TD] ΔΡΥΣ[/TD]
[TD] Drys balanidia[/TD]
[TD] Druid take their name after that tree
Balanidia after Balanis (dryad name of Daphnaie nymphs- Ilex)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] River reeds[/TD]
[TD] Syrinx
(Σωλην)[/TD]
[TD] kalamia[/TD]
[TD] Kalamindar is the Thracian name
Comparing with Greek σωλην = pipe[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] laurel[/TD]
[TD] daphne[/TD]
[TD] dafne[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Willow (salix alba)[/TD]
[TD] ?[/TD]
[TD] Itea - Itia[/TD]
[TD] Can’t find source in ancient Greek[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Willow (Salix)[/TD]
[TD] Κλαια (oreiad-Nymph)[/TD]
[TD] κλαιουσα[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] hawthorn[/TD]
[TD] krataigos[/TD]
[TD] xagkathia[/TD]
[TD] Akis – a(g)kanthos = thorn
Sacred to wedding ceremony[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] alder[/TD]
[TD] klethra[/TD]
[TD] σκληθρα[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] birch[/TD]
[TD] Βετουλη* (vetule-Bitule)[/TD]
[TD] Σημυδα
Semuda-simida[/TD]
[TD] *the ancient name Βετουλη is mention in
δημητρακου Lexicon
Hederici Lexicon,
I could not find any text.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] hornbeam[/TD]
[TD] ?[/TD]
[TD] Γαυρος
gauros-gavros[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Chestnut tree[/TD]
[TD] Καστανεα
Kastanea[/TD]
[TD] Kαστανεα-ια[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Dogwood[/TD]
[TD] Keranos
Kraneia *[/TD]
[TD] Krania[/TD]
[TD] * Kraneia is a known (h)amadryad daughter of Oxylos[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Maple[/TD]
[TD] Σφενδαμος
Sphendamos-sphendamos[/TD]
[TD] Σφενδαμη[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Fern[/TD]
[TD] Πτερ-η
Pter-e[/TD]
[TD] Φτρερη[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] strawberry[/TD]
[TD] Χαμαικερασον *[/TD]
[TD] Φραουλα fraoyla[/TD]
[TD] Fragaria vesca,
the wild one[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Ash-tree[/TD]
[TD] Φραξος (male)[/TD]
[TD] Μελια[/TD]
[TD] In ash trees lives the nyphs Μελιαι-Μελιαδες, modern name is after them.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Beech tree[/TD]
[TD] Φηγος Fegos-Figos
Οξια*

Phigaleia (oreiad Nymph)[/TD]
[TD] Οξια
Oxia[/TD]
[TD] *After Makedonian timber-river Axios,
the shaped with axe (axis) wood, ready to burn, compare wood is (α)Ξυλο Xulo-Xilo[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Holly[/TD]
[TD] Υλος Ylos-Ilos*
(fm) Ylh[/TD]
[TD] Purnaria[/TD]
[TD] *I find the term in some lexicon as Υλη but means wood for burn υλη.
Υλοτομος = wood cutter for winter’s fire[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] (Holly )[/TD]
[TD] Ιξος Ixos[/TD]
[TD] Γκι gi[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] yew[/TD]
[TD] Πρινος[/TD]
[TD] πριναρια[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] hazel[/TD]
[TD] Κορυς (= helmet)
Λεπτοκαρυον (=thin shell nut)[/TD]
[TD] Λεπτοκαρυα
Φουντουκια* (Funduk)[/TD]
[TD] *after Ottoman’s Puntuk(from Pontus) Modern Turkish Findik[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Wallnut[/TD]
[TD] Καρυα (karua-Karia the Nymph-Dryad) means hard[/TD]
[TD] καρυδια[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] elm[/TD]
[TD] Πτελεα Ptelea[/TD]
[TD] Φτελια - λευκα[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] White poplar[/TD]
[TD] Λευκη leuke (dryad)[/TD]
[TD] λευκα[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Black poplar[/TD]
[TD] Heliada[/TD]
[TD] Λευκα (καβακι)[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Sloe, blackthorn[/TD]
[TD] ? *[/TD]
[TD] Κορομελια ,
Τζιρνικια,
Τζανερια,
Αγριο-δαμασκηνια (wild-damson)[/TD]
[TD] *since is μελια the ancient name is probably among the meliades nymphs or dryads[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Almond[/TD]
[TD] Αμυγδαλεα amygdalea[/TD]
[TD] αμυγδαλια[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] plum[/TD]
[TD] Προυμνη Proumne-Prumni (theophrastos)[/TD]
[TD] δαμασκηνια[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Fir tree[/TD]
[TD] Πιτυς (Pitys-Pitis) Ελατη etc[/TD]
[TD] Ελατη general name for abies family[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Bay laurel tree[/TD]
[TD] Δαφνη dafnis (oreiad)[/TD]
[TD] dafni[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] rowan[/TD]
[TD] Ooν (Oon)[/TD]
[TD] Σορβο[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] elder[/TD]
[TD] Ακταια (Theophrastos) (σ)αμμοβοτρυς[/TD]
[TD] Κουφοξυλια
Σαμπουκος (Sabuca)[/TD]
[TD] * ακταια means on the beach, near sea sand,
Βοτρυς is a description that describes the plant’s fruit formation,
(sammoBotrys) means the Botrys style plant that lives at the sand,[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Linden[/TD]
[TD] Φιλυρα (dryad)[/TD]
[TD] Φιλυρα[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Fig tree[/TD]
[TD] Συκεα[/TD]
[TD] Συκια[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Plane tree[/TD]
[TD] Πλατανος Πλατανος[/TD]
[TD] Πλατανος[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Quinse tree[/TD]
[TD] Κυδωνεα[/TD]
[TD] Κυδωνια[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Apple[/TD]
[TD] Μηλεα[/TD]
[TD] Μηλια[/TD]
[TD] After meliades Nymphs[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Pear tree[/TD]
[TD] Απιδεα[/TD]
[TD] Απιδια
Αχλαδια[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Pistacia[/TD]
[TD] σχινος[/TD]
[TD] Μαστιχη[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Pistacia[/TD]
[TD] Ταραμυθια[/TD]
[TD] Τριμυθια[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Myrtle[/TD]
[TD] Μυρσινη Μυρτος[/TD]
[TD] Μυρτια[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Mulberry tree[/TD]
[TD] Morea (hamadryad)[/TD]
[TD] Μουρια[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] grape[/TD]
[TD] Κληματις
Αμπελος (daphnae nymph)[/TD]
[TD] αμπελι[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


B.)
The nymphs of the trees

Dryas general trees
Dryada of relative with oak tree

αμαδρυας hamadryad means the lower in height (ground plants) living next to Dryades

Melades the one who live in Fruit trees, in Orchands
amameliades the one who live in the ground under the Meliades Nymphs (compare Greek χαμομηλι)

Ορειαδες oreiads the one who live in mountain forest, like pine trees

Κισσιαι The Ivy (kissos) like plants


etc

 

[Selwyn Greenfrith]

Thanks for righting the miswording - it was indeed meant to readoff something like: English names of British trees...

The fuller heading for Wych is: Wych Elm...so mayhap a kind of for Bergulme?

I take it you mean: Schierling not: Shierling?

 

[sparkey]

The fuller heading for Wych is: Wych Elm...so mayhap a kind of for Bergulme?

I think both are fairly specific in referring to Ulmus glabra, so only "kind of" in that they know it's an elm in both languages. The German etymology is pretty obvious... berg + ulme... but the English is less obvious. I had to look it up to find that wych is a cognate with wicker, both coming from the O.E. wice, meaning pliant.

I take it you mean: Schierling not: Shierling?

Yup... a typo from an English speaker not used to putting the "c" there for that sound. :embarassed:

 

[MOESAN]

I put here some gaelic translations for some trees, tu feed this almost dead thread -
maybe it would be of no use? -
all the way, it is a dictionary "work" because I do not speak gaelic even if I tried to learn it (or them) some years ago and can recognize some structures or derivations ... so some mistake could be occurred (I hope not)

Oak	dair (darach)	darag, darach
Salow/willow	saileach	seileach
Hawthorne	crann sceiche	sgitheach
Alder	fearna	feàrna
Birch	beith	beithe
Hornbeam	?	?
Chestnut tree	cnô capail castàn	geanm-chnô
Dogwood	?	?
Maple	mailp
Fern	raithneach	raineach, roineach
Strawberry(#-tree)	sù talùn	sùbh-làir
Ash tree	fuinseog	uinnseann ?
Beech	feà, faibhile	crann-faibhile
Holly	cuileann	cuileann
Yew	iùr	iubhar, iuthar
Horse chesnut tree
Larch	learôg	guibhas-learaig
Hazel wood	coll	calltunn
Walnut tree	crann gallchnô	geinm-chnô
Elm	leamhàn	leamhan
Sloe	draighean dubh	draighneag
Blackthorn	draighean dubh	?
Plum tree	crann plumaî	?
Fir tree	giùis	giubhas
Rowan tree (mountain ash?)	caorthann	?
Elder	crann troim	craobh fhearna
Linden tree / Lime	teile, crann teile	teile
Aspen	?	critheach (critheann)
some gaelic speakers could confirm or correct?

[TD="width: 197"] english [/TD]
[TD="width: 190"]irish gaelic[/TD]
[TD="width: 207"]scottish gaelic[/TD]

 

[MOESAN]

you can notice the scottish gaelic spelling is more conservative than the irish one