Politics The case of Macedonia

[AndronikD]

There were alot of people who were the "fathers" of modern greece. Are you talking about the greek enlightenment or the greek revolutionary leaders? Being christian certainly helped as even muslims greeks were regarded as turks or turk sympithiers. That's the big difference between greece and FYR of Macedonia. Greece was a grassroots movements of alot of people under the suppression of the ottomans where as FYR of Macedonia was started by one person, Tito.

Non greater than Riggas and then not only do he considers Macedonia as non-greek country, in fact there aren't any Greeks in his works. It seems your grasssroots were „romanian“ rather than Greek, not to mention hellenic.
READ YOUR CONSTITUTION. Untill recently there was Christian majority and muslim minority in Greece. It sounds familiar to you doesn't it or you are to young to know.
About Tito, utter ignorance, not worth it.

FYR of Macedonia considers Gotse Delchev and the VMRO as their "fathers" of the nation. The ironic part in all of it is the VMRO's goal was the annexation of Macedonia to Bulgaria during the balkan wars, and if they succeded there would not be any FYR of Macedonia or slavo-macedonians, they would be calling themselves bulgarians. So in a way FYR of Macedonia celebrates Gotse and VMRO failure as an organization.

Try to educate yourself before asserting something that you have no idea about. Show me one IMRO document that states what you are saying and I would buy you a case of beer. On the other hand I'll refer you to a bunch of evidence written in demotike where IMRO members identify themselves as macedonians. And you even don't have to buy me a case of beer.
And where did you find to call Гоце Делчев bulgarian ))). He is the biggest thorn that does not give peace to our Bulgarian neighbours. ))) Not to start about who Bulgarians in fact are as a people (extinct of course).
About the failiures, well they didn't have much support with their republican ideas you know. At least they didn't have no German, Danish or Russian kings to back them up if you know what I mean .

I personally don't have a problem acknowledging the people in FYR of Macedonia as slavo-macedonians, and I think its great that these people would rather relate to their southern neighbours than their northern and eastern.

It is not up to you personally, it is not up to Greece and it is not up to anybody but ourselves. As soon as you understand that as better for yourself and Greece.
About the relations, well we didn't have a choice you know. It's not that we are very much enjoying that our blood relatives are fiery Greeks right now but what the hell, let them be. I don't have problems when they come here in Macedonia. I don't go that often to Greece nowadays, not with all this Makedonomania going on there. I remember however that my friend's grandmother didn't even want to look at, not to mention to speak to her brothers because she considered them traitors. But i guess those old people had a hot blood didn't they?
Anyway you should read Karakasidou you know. Maybe she could make you understand that the Greekness of Macedonia is relatively new notion.

What I don't like is when people are trying to separate macedon from its hellenic identity and turining it into a slavic one. So a compromise must be reached between the two countries, unfortunatly the ruling political party in FYR of Macedonia takes a hardline approach to the issue which only hurts them.

"The Colonels, as it happened, promoted Alexander as a great Greek hero, especially to army recruits: the Greeks of the fourth century B.C., to whom Alexander was a half-Macedonian, half-Epirote barbarian conqueror, would have found this metamorphosis as ironic as I did." this from a men that has lived for 17 years in Hellas. Oh yes, they probably didn't tell you but the democratic Greece was ruled in the 70-ies by the Colonels, a military junta known by their cruelty both towards Greeks and Macedonians.

But let's get back to business Tell me where the hell have the Slavs come from and where the hell have they disapeared into?

 

[AndronikD]

By the way when we are already digressing into stories, fables and wishful thinking I wonder did this guy Karamanlis published his memoirs. Wonder how will he describe his grandmother on maternal side? Wonder what language were they conversing? If at all?

 

[zanipolo]

I think the issue is - of the germanic, italic, hellenic, celtic, finnic, illyric, nordic, baltic, iberian and gallic the slavs where the LAST to enter Europe

This is what people mean by not original people

 

[AndronikD]

I think the issue is - of the germanic, italic, hellenic, celtic, finnic, illyric, nordic, baltic, iberian and gallic the slavs where the LAST to enter Europe

This is what people mean by not original people

Well what you are speaking about is what I mean under "romantic thinking".

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?26187-Macedonians/page23

the last post. I hate to repeat myself...

 

[AndronikD]

I think the issue is - of the germanic, italic, hellenic, celtic, finnic, illyric, nordic, baltic, iberian and gallic the slavs where the LAST to enter Europe

This is what people mean by not original people

Aryans also used to be the last in India some time ago. Now they seem to get back in shape a little bit . Strange thing this eurocentric thinking. Seems like it lacks time orientation.

 

[Elias2]

Non greater than Riggas and then not only do he considers Macedonia as non-greek country, in fact there aren't any Greeks in his works. It seems your grasssroots were „romanian“ rather than Greek, not to mention hellenic.
READ YOUR CONSTITUTION. Untill recently there was Christian majority and muslim minority in Greece. It sounds familiar to you doesn't it or you are to young to know.
About Tito, utter ignorance, not worth it.

There were alot of greek scholars and puiblishers responcible for the greek enlightenment. If I were to choose one over the rest I would go with admanatios Korais who actually witnessed the french revolution first hand and saw the same thing happening with the greeks in the ottoman empire. I know what the constitution says, it was becaue there were more than greeks fighting the turks for indepedence at the time, to leave them out would be wrong. I'm talking about the christian arvanites and the vlachs. And please tell me about my utter ignorance about tito, I would like to hear it

Try to educate yourself before asserting something that you have no idea about. Show me one IMRO document that states what you are saying and I would buy you a case of beer. On the other hand I'll refer you to a bunch of evidence written in demotike where IMRO members identify themselves as macedonians. And you even don't have to buy me a case of beer.
And where did you find to call Гоце Делчев bulgarian ))). He is the biggest thorn that does not give peace to our Bulgarian neighbours. ))) Not to start about who Bulgarians in fact are as a people (extinct of course).
About the failiures, well they didn't have much support with their republican ideas you know. At least they didn't have no German, Danish or Russian kings to back them up if you know what I mean .

I wouldn't say reading things that the government of Skopia approves of is educating oneself. As I can't read bulgarian, I read secondary sources about the VMRO, all which say their goal was the annexation of macedonia to bulgaria. Actually all evidence from this point in time of the balkan war points to a very bulgarian character and aspirations of the slavophone speaking peoples of the region.

It is not up to you personally, it is not up to Greece and it is not up to anybody but ourselves. As soon as you understand that as better for yourself and Greece.
About the relations, well we didn't have a choice you know. It's not that we are very much enjoying that our blood relatives are fiery Greeks right now but what the hell, let them be. I don't have problems when they come here in Macedonia. I don't go that often to Greece nowadays, not with all this Makedonomania going on there. I remember however that my friend's grandmother didn't even want to look at, not to mention to speak to her brothers because she considered them traitors. But i guess those old people had a hot blood didn't they?
Anyway you should read Karakasidou you know. Maybe she could make you understand that the Greekness of Macedonia is relatively new notion.

This answers my question I asked earlier which time period at you refering to when you asked me about the greekness of macedonia, 330 BC or the balkan wars, you are refering to the latter. I don't think it's a wrong notion to call you a slavo-macedonian. Slavo for your culture, and macedonian beacuse thats what Tito called the socialist republic in Yugoslavia. If I'm wrong on either these accounts please explain why.

"The Colonels, as it happened, promoted Alexander as a great Greek hero, especially to army recruits: the Greeks of the fourth century B.C., to whom Alexander was a half-Macedonian, half-Epirote barbarian conqueror, would have found this metamorphosis as ironic as I did." this from a men that has lived for 17 years in Hellas. Oh yes, they probably didn't tell you but the democratic Greece was ruled in the 70-ies by the Colonels, a military junta known by their cruelty both towards Greeks and Macedonians.

But let's get back to business Tell me where the hell have the Slavs come from and where the hell have they disapeared into?

They don't teach you these things in FYR of Macedonia? I wonder why

 

[AndronikD]

There were alot of greek scholars and puiblishers responcible for the greek enlightenment. If I were to choose one over the rest I would go with admanatios Korais who actually witnessed the french revolution first hand and saw the same thing happening with the greeks in the ottoman empire. I know what the constitution says, it was becaue there were more than greeks fighting the turks for indepedence at the time, to leave them out would be wrong. I'm talking about the christian arvanites and the vlachs. And please tell me about my utter ignorance about tito, I would like to hear it

Well son Corais is even better though he speaks less about Macedonia than Riggas. However he is a really great figure and I do sincerely admire him. You should learn about Macedonia from him that's for sure.
I do agree about the constitution, i was just making sure we don't get into a dead-end about the "pureness" of the Greek nation as I have a lots of times in the past.
About Tito:

http://217.16.70.245/?pBroj=1995&stID=61450&pR=7

Since you don't know Macedonian I wil translate some parts of it:
"According to the first and only official „Information for the measures undertook by the authorities towards the citizens of R. of Macedonia which were found suspicious of acting upon formation of independent and united Macedonia“, prepared by MVR in 1993 in the period 1945-1985 there were 105 illegal groups and organizations with over 1200 members. 1 045 of them were arrested, 242 of them were killed." .... "According to unofficial statistics in the period 1949-1951 7 330 highschoolers were imprisoned and there were over 2 500 political prisoners in Macedonia."
So there is no love lost for Tito in Macedonia don't worry. In fact you should be celebrating him, cause if it wasn't for Tito we were going to talk about the rights of the Greek minority in the one and only Macedonia, not about the rights of Macedonians in Greece (which are getting better every year I must say).

wouldn't say reading things that the government of Skopia approves of is educating oneself. As I can't read bulgarian, I read secondary sources about the VMRO, all which say their goal was the annexation of macedonia to bulgaria. Actually all evidence from this point in time of the balkan war points to a very bulgarian character and aspirations of the slavophone speaking peoples of the region.

haha, the first one is good i must say.
If you can't read Macedonian or Bulgarian you should have reserves when you speak about IMRO. First of all none born outside of Macedonia was allowed to be a member of IMRO, second the one that would publicly proclaim that he does not stand for autonomous Macedonia was probably putting himself in mercy of the harsh rules of the organization (death that is to say). IMRO has a long and twisting history but maybe nothing is more proving of its non-Bulgarian character than the struggles between IMRO and the Supreme Macedonian Committee (which was originally Macedonian emigrant organization, later usurped by Bulgars).

This answers my question I asked earlier which time period at you refering to when you asked me about the greekness of macedonia, 330 BC or the balkan wars, you are refering to the latter. I don't think it's a wrong notion to call you a slavo-macedonian. Slavo for your culture, and macedonian beacuse thats what Tito called the socialist republic in Yugoslavia. If I'm wrong on either these accounts please explain why.

I am Macedonian because my forefathers have called like that for as much as they can remember, and I will stay like that because of that And yes I am proud of my culture even if I have it to call it Slavic (which is a Byzantine invention anyway ). About the ancient Greekness (you must mean helleneness Greek is not equal to Hellene you know) of Macedonia there are some great holes in that theory you know. And i gave you links and arguments about it in the thread for Macedonians. You can read them.

They don't teach you these things in FYR of Macedonia? I wonder why

No need to teach us we know first hand from the survivors of Agios Efstratios. But you see Europeans think of you as a cradle of democracy and yet you had concentration camps in the 70-ies. Strange...

 

[Elias2]

Well son Corais is even better though he speaks less about Macedonia than Riggas. However he is a really great figure and I do sincerely admire him. You should learn about Macedonia from him that's for sure.

All the people speaking about macedonia was speaking about it in thier contemporary time period, which had a slavic element to it. I think we're talking about two different macedonias. When I talk about macedonia I talk about it with this in mind;



I think when you talk about macedonia you think of this;



I really have no idea when did the second become the accociated baorders of macedonia considering there wasn't a macedon vallet in the ottoman empire, so someone had to come up with it. When I talk of macedonia I talk of the first map.

In fact you should be celebrating him, cause if it wasn't for Tito we were going to talk about the rights of the Greek minority in the one and only Macedonia, not about the rights of Macedonians in Greece (which are getting better every year I must say).

Socialist republic of macedonia was made in august of 1944 within Yugoslavia. Two months later at the paris peace conference of 1944 Yugoslavia make it public that the province of macedonia in greece and the part in Bulgaria should be a part of SROM. I don't think that is a coisidence the two events are so close together. Yugoslavia expansioist aims was very clear form the beginning. So I don't look at tito with any sort of admiration.

haha, the first one is good i must say.
If you can't read Macedonian or Bulgarian you should have reserves when you speak about IMRO. First of all none born outside of Macedonia was allowed to be a member of IMRO, second the one that would publicly proclaim that he does not stand for autonomous Macedonia was probably putting himself in mercy of the harsh rules of the organization (death that is to say). IMRO has a long and twisting history but maybe nothing is more proving of its non-Bulgarian character than the struggles between IMRO and the Supreme Macedonian Committee (which was originally Macedonian emigrant organization, later usurped by Bulgars).

VMRO aims were very clear from the start, the annaxation of macedonia to sofia. The bulgrian aspirations of the people in the region was also very clear. These facts cannot be disputed, so please stop the nationistic rhetoric. If VMRO has succeded you would be calling yoruself Bulgarian not Macdonian.

I am Macedonian because my forefathers have called like that for as much as they can remember, and I will stay like that because of that And yes I am proud of my culture even if I have it to call it Slavic (which is a Byzantine invention anyway ). About the ancient Greekness (you must mean helleneness Greek is not equal to Hellene you know) of Macedonia there are some great holes in that theory you know. And i gave you links and arguments about it in the thread for Macedonians. You can read them.

Are you sure your forefathers called themselves that? Don't you think its a little fishy that FYR of Macedonia had a law stating scientific research into its history was forbidden? They needed time to come up with a history they could preach. Don't you think its also weird that all the ethnographic maps at the time of the balkan wars portrayed no "Macedonians" in the region? There were many different people who came into the balkans and made their owns maps which had different fluctuating boarders of where peopels were but the one constant was all of these ethographers did not define a "macedonian" people in the region. I think you are letting yourself get caught up in nationalism and not looking at this objectivly.

 

[iapetoc]

Well son Corais is even better though he speaks less about Macedonia than Riggas. However he is a really great figure and I do sincerely admire him. You should learn about Macedonia from him that's for sure.
I do agree about the constitution, i was just making sure we don't get into a dead-end about the "pureness" of the Greek nation as I have a lots of times in the past.
About Tito:

http://217.16.70.245/?pBroj=1995&stID=61450&pR=7

Since you don't know Macedonian I wil translate some parts of it:
"According to the first and only official „Information for the measures undertook by the authorities towards the citizens of R. of Macedonia which were found suspicious of acting upon formation of independent and united Macedonia“, prepared by MVR in 1993 in the period 1945-1985 there were 105 illegal groups and organizations with over 1200 members. 1 045 of them were arrested, 242 of them were killed." .... "According to unofficial statistics in the period 1949-1951 7 330 highschoolers were imprisoned and there were over 2 500 political prisoners in Macedonia."
So there is no love lost for Tito in Macedonia don't worry. In fact you should be celebrating him, cause if it wasn't for Tito we were going to talk about the rights of the Greek minority in the one and only Macedonia, not about the rights of Macedonians in Greece (which are getting better every year I must say).





haha, the first one is good i must say.
If you can't read Macedonian or Bulgarian you should have reserves when you speak about IMRO. First of all none born outside of Macedonia was allowed to be a member of IMRO, second the one that would publicly proclaim that he does not stand for autonomous Macedonia was probably putting himself in mercy of the harsh rules of the organization (death that is to say). IMRO has a long and twisting history but maybe nothing is more proving of its non-Bulgarian character than the struggles between IMRO and the Supreme Macedonian Committee (which was originally Macedonian emigrant organization, later usurped by Bulgars).




I am Macedonian because my forefathers have called like that for as much as they can remember, and I will stay like that because of that And yes I am proud of my culture even if I have it to call it Slavic (which is a Byzantine invention anyway ). About the ancient Greekness (you must mean helleneness Greek is not equal to Hellene you know) of Macedonia there are some great holes in that theory you know. And i gave you links and arguments about it in the thread for Macedonians. You can read them.



No need to teach us we know first hand from the survivors of Agios Efstratios. But you see Europeans think of you as a cradle of democracy and yet you had concentration camps in the 70-ies. Strange...

Indeed you are right,

YOUR FATHERS WERE CALLED MAC_DONALDIANS
cause Communism and Tito order them so,

the illegal organization you are telling me they were not Makedonians but Bulgarians,
we know the case from 1890, Bulgarians try to learn by force Slavic language to Greeks of Makedonia,

YOUR GRANFATHERS WERE CALLED BARDARIANS,
we know that the grand-father of Kligorov was an elected to Bulgarian Parliament in Sofia from the province of Bardaska

ABOUT YOUR GRAND-GRANDFATHERS??
well someone of themn were Turks, Someone of them were SERBS, someone of them were BULGARIANS, and some of them were ALBANIANS.

You manage to eliminate Greek Makedonian minority of Monasterion, Strumnitsa etc
and Greece Makedonians remained silent for 100 years in order not to break good relation with Serbia and ex-Yugoslavia,
But the last years your political is extra dangerous for stability,
you make the tough guys while you have 105 000 Nato troops in your lands,

In Athens the politician of modern Greece are simply corupt for many years now,

But here in Makedonia we know you well and who you were and are

About your Propaganda,
Greece and Greek Makedonians, admit the exist of 7-8 000 Slavophonoi,
Slavophoni means Slavic Speaking,
NoT Fyromians not Serbs, Not Bulgarians,
even they don't know from which slavic tribe-nation are from,
except some of them in case of Florina that say that were Serbs from Dusan times, the rest are towards Bulgarian,

How many Greeks or Grecophones exist in Fyrom???????
tell me,
you eliminated them all, so plz stop the bullshit of MaC-Donaldia,

the case of Makedonians being slavic and the panslavism of ex Russia to expand to aegean, as also the well known case of Turks to divide Homogenous population by devastating villages and population is known.
remember that Turks send about 300 000 Greeks in Moldavia so the problem being among Moldavian and Greeks and not Moldavian and Turks,
same happened here. in an area that was primary south Serbia Skopje of Dusan, Turks moved population from Bulgaria, so the problem to be 3 Greeks -Serbians Bulgarians,
Albanians at that time were Turk allies, later after WW1 and with help from Italy and Austria they create Unification movements and have finally their independent state.

the MaC-Donaldia issue is modern from 1945 and after,
before it was the Bardaska,

Don't LIE to shelf, it is not correct

BESIDES IF YOUR GRAND FATHERS WERE CALLED MAKEDONIANS THEN SURELY THEY WRE AS MAKEDONIANS IN TURKISH CENSUS,
since from 1855 Turks allow minorities rights, and Freedom of Religion

BUT IN 1890 you were still Serbians or Bulgarians,

So your Grand fathers were either Serbs either Bulgarians,

 

[AndronikD]

Are you sure your forefathers called themselves that? Don't you think its a little fishy that FYR of Macedonia had a law stating scientific research into its history was forbidden? They needed time to come up with a history they could preach. Don't you think its also weird that all the ethnographic maps at the time of the balkan wars portrayed no "Macedonians" in the region? There were many different people who came into the balkans and made their owns maps which had different fluctuating boarders of where peopels were but the one constant was all of these ethographers did not define a "macedonian" people in the region. I think you are letting yourself get caught up in nationalism and not looking at this objectivly.

No I'm not sure, I I'm not sure what they meant when I heard them say that. )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) Are you reading at all what you write???????
There was not such law, there was a law under the Tito regime that prohibited inquires that would shake the official doctrine that we were Slavs that came here in the 6-th century. I presume you refer to that law, well it is not in power since the early 90-ies.
However let me blow away your doubts since you don't trust me. This a references to Bulgarian authors since you don't believe to us.

That's a Bulgarian author that criss-crossed Macedonia in the end of the 19-th and the beginning of the 20-th century. He states that not only do Macedonians call themselves Macedonians, not only that surrounding nations call them Macedonians but that Greeks in Macedonia don't call themselves Macedonians...

That's the agent of the Bulgarian Exarchate sent in 1871 to spread Bulgarism in Macedonia. I will leave the interpretation to you since I don't believe you will trust my words that there were macedonians in the middle of the 19-th century that were comfortable with the ancient macedonian legacy.

The rest of your posts are repetitions. So they are already answered.

lastly @iapetoc
son take your glasses take your lollypop and observe how have you liberated the "Greek" Macedonia:

Images tell a thousand words when the words are spoken to the deaf.

By the way since you are from macedonia you should go and ask the current mayor of Solun how did they called macedonians in his youth.

 

[AndronikD]

Now nobody explained to me why the hell there is R1A on the territory of Macedonia with a very old common ancestor? Very strange...

 

[Elias2]

Andronik you dodge my question about ethnographers not recording any macedonian identity when they consturcted their maps. And if your only evedince of a macedonian identity is a slavic one, then you know its been manipulated. These ethnographers came from many differnet countries around europe, while yours only came from one source. If you can't see the manipulation of data to suit the slavic expansionist dreams your being selective.

If you want to get on the subject of genetics, then its has been proven the closet genetical group that matches with slavo-macedonians are bulgarians.

You need to face the facts that communism created FYR of Macedonia and stop with the nationalistic rhetoric.

 

[AndronikD]

Andronik you dodge my question about ethnographers not recording any macedonian identity when they consturcted their maps. And if your only evedince of a macedonian identity is a slavic one, then you know its been manipulated. These ethnographers came from many differnet countries around europe, while yours only came from one source. If you can't see the manipulation of data to suit the slavic expansionist dreams your being selective.

If you want to get on the subject of genetics, then its has been proven the closet genetical group that matches with slavo-macedonians are bulgarians.

You need to face the facts that communism created FYR of Macedonia and stop with the nationalistic rhetoric.

I didn't. I just answered you the question but you cannot read slavic.
1. Bulgaria had interests in 1870 onwards to represent the population of Macedonia as Bulgarian, just like Greece wanted to represent them as Greeks later.
2. Ottoman censuses were identifying people according to their church affiliation and as you Greeks should well know the Ohrid Archbishopric was forbidden in 1767 by Sultan's irade (the same as the Bulgarian Exarchate was established in 1870 and that is to say very uncannonical right?) on suggestion of the ecumenical patriarch of Constantinople so Macedonians of the late XIX century had two evils to choose from, and accordingly they are listed in Ottoman censuses subsenquently in most of the others.

Vasil K'nchov was ethnographer and i gave you a quotation above. It must have slipped him to name us Macedonians since he was a Bulgarian propagandist.

On the subject of genetics Serbs and Bulgarians are equally close to us. The problem is that the "ancestry" of the haplogroup R1a on the Balkans is greater even than the Aryans. Comprende?

Lastly I and vast majority of Macedonians don't have expansionist claims to no one, not to Bulgaria not to Greece. All we want is for us to be left alone and for Macedonians in Bulgaria and Greece to enjoy their guaranteed human and civilian rights in their respective countries.

As for communism, Macedonians had more harm than benefits from it. And I did presented that to you that partially . On the other side you need to forget that story that has been told to you and start looking and start producing arguments instead of stories.

For example something like this, this is when the Greeks have not existed (not as Greeks):

 

[iapetoc]

Now nobody explained to me why the hell there is R1A on the territory of Macedonia with a very old common ancestor? Very strange...

well how about ancient Thracian R1a Y-Dna from Tombs,

seems like an ancient R1a existed before slavic invasions

and surely it is not slavic But Greek R1a the IE branch of Greeks,

as you see son R1a existed in Greece and Bulgaria before the invasion of Slavic people,

 

[AndronikD]

well how about ancient Thracian R1a Y-Dna from Tombs,

seems like an ancient R1a existed before slavic invasions

and surely it is not slavic But Greek R1a the IE branch of Greeks,

as you see son R1a existed in Greece and Bulgaria before the invasion of Slavic people,

Well where the hell is the Slavic R1a then? It seems to me that you don't understand the problem.

If it is Thracian than it cannot be Hellenic.

 

[Elias2]

I didn't. I just answered you the question but you cannot read slavic.
1. Bulgaria had interests in 1870 onwards to represent the population of Macedonia as Bulgarian, just like Greece wanted to represent them as Greeks later.

This is true, greeks wanted to unit all orthodox peoples into one coutry with the greek vernacular.

2. Ottoman censuses were identifying people according to their church affiliation and as you Greeks should well know the Ohrid Archbishopric was forbidden in 1767 by Sultan's irade (the same as the Bulgarian Exarchate was established in 1870 and that is to say very uncannonical right?) on suggestion of the ecumenical patriarch of Constantinople so Macedonians of the late XIX century had two evils to choose from, and accordingly they are listed in Ottoman censuses subsenquently in most of the others.

That is why I point to the ethographic maps that wasn't based on religion, where there was no macedonian people represented in any cases. About the Ohrid church which was condemed, why was it a "macedonian" church ? because Ohrid is now in a country with the name "macedonia"?

On the subject of genetics Serbs and Bulgarians are equally close to us. The problem is that the "ancestry" of the haplogroup R1a on the Balkans is greater even than the Aryans. Comprende?

I understand but I don't see what point you're trying to make. Are you saying that you are native to the area? Then I agree. The slavs that migrated south was a minority in the areas they settled.

Lastly I and vast majority of Macedonians don't have expansionist claims to no one, not to Bulgaria not to Greece. All we want is for us to be left alone and for Macedonians in Bulgaria and Greece to enjoy their guaranteed human and civilian rights in their respective countries.

There is nothing stopping people from speaking syrillic in Greece, or laws condeming people if they do. Slavo-macedonians even have their own political party, the rainbow party. If you are looking for rights like making cyrillic a second language I would disagree, I thought that treaty FYR of Macedonia signed with the albanians in your country in 2001 was very wronge, as the albanians won't stop there in their goal for a greater albania/kosovo.

As for communism, Macedonians had more harm than benefits from it. And I did presented that to you that partially . On the other side you need to forget that story that has been told to you and start looking and start producing arguments instead of stories.

For example something like this, this is when the Greeks have not existed (not as Greeks):

I don't understand what your trying to say about arguments vs stories, what story are you refering to? please stop with the riddles. My arguement is pretty clear, Macedonian is a invented nationality by the communists for expansionist goals in the balkans during the cold war. The people of FYR of Macedonia are a south slavic people related closly to bulgarians/serbs as proven by genetics and culture.

What is your argument?

 

[Valmir]

There is nothing stopping people from speaking syrillic in Greece, or laws condeming people if they do. Slavo-macedonians even have their own political party, the rainbow party. If you are looking for rights like making cyrillic a second language I would disagree, I thought that treaty FYR of Macedonia signed with the albanians in your country in 2001 was very wronge, as the albanians won't stop there in their goal for a greater albania/kosovo.

Why you lie my friend?
greece would never leave macedonians to speak their language in greece like you dont leave Albanians speak Albanian in greece!

 

[Elias2]

How is greece stoping albanians from speaking albanian? does the government have magical powers? FYR of Macedonia should nulify that agreement they signed with the albanians if they know whats good for them.

 

[Valmir]

No the goverment doesnt have Magical power, But just go in Youtube and you will find plenty videos on how they stop them,
and Macedonians never wanted to sign an agreement with Albanians, But we didnt asked them and we dont have why to do it!

 

[Elias2]

Youtube is full of nationalistic crap and is not worth taking seriously.