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Yeah, and that's why I think people should stop using these nomenclatures ("J2b, J2b2, J2b2a", etc) as I can see it causing confusion, but rather specify the branch defining SNP (i.e. J2b-L283, J2b-Z2432, J2b-Z2453, J2b-M205). The nomenclatures can also change over time as new branches are...

Nothing really surprising there. This sample is in the "South Asian" branch, J2b-Z2432, so not under J2b-L283. Also, the currently oldest J2b-Z2432 sample comes from Bustan, Uzbekistan (sample I4157; 1600-1300 BC; BMAC).

In J-Y21045>PH4679 news: A new Big Y-700 result at J-M241 project from a sample with Italian paternal ancestry came out as J-PH4679* (no specific location within Italy is currently known). This branch contains a significant portion of Albanian J2b-L283, where ~85% of Albanian J-PH4679 falls...

That's intersting indeed. Within Sicily, Arbëreshë did settle Western Sicily: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arb%C3%ABresh_settlements#Sicily

Since this "issue" is brought up again, the vast majority of the kits he referenced were indeed funded by Albanian Bloodlines - Gjenetika Shqiptare administrators and volunteers, including broder, and shouldn't have been removed when these guys split up the project and opened this "new one". The...

I heard the paper has already been submitted to Science magazine and is undergoing the "peer-review" process. So it should be soon. Absolutely. We currently have zero Y-DNA samples from ancient Montenegro, and it's a region that's quite important for the Illyrians..

Yes, the upcoming Lazaridis et al. paper titled something like: ”The Genetic History of the Southern Arc: A Bridge Between West Asia & Europe” seems quite promising according to leaks. This was posted on a different forum, supposedly Bronze Age to Iron Age samples:

You can't even take any jokes, can you :lol2: Of course the Illyrians are mentioned only in the Iron Age, but their ancestors or "Proto-Illyrians" surely lived before that. And according to your "model" J-Y21045>PH4679 would fit that. You yourself said it's "native" to Albania since ~1700 BC...

LOL, I think you might jinx us J-Y21045>PH4679 by proclaiming we are Illyrians in Albania since MBA-LBA, considering your theories have been "off" thus far :lol2:

He is not, because the Gudnja cave sample is actually proven negative for many SNPs downstream of J-Z1297 (you can see this in the J2b-L283 ancient DNA map), with the exception of Z1295, so he is either ~J-Z1297* or ~J-Z1295*. He obviously didn't live that far in time after J-Z1297 mutation...

That's right. Don't forget the Daunian/Messapian samples too. So everything suggests that J-L283 was an important haplogroup among the Illyrians. Speaking of Neretva river, I26726, the ancient sample that's phylogenetically closer to the vast majority of Albanian J-L283, is literally south...

This is news to me. Care to elaborate? I thought your boy Aspurg made it clear to you that J-L283 in Dalmatian coast predates the Tumulus Culture or it doesn't have any obvious links to it.

Exactly! Therefore, he may have moved further north during the Roman period. Let's see if we'll get further clues once the raw data is published with more autosomal analysis and possibly deeper subclade classification, as the only thing we know currently is he is Y37121-. Everything else...

• The J-Y12878 sample is mostly on the autosomal cluster EU_Core1. So this one does appear to have more of a "southern" autosomal profile. • The J-Z1297 sample is mostly EU_Core3, so he may be "native" to the Pannonian plain for some time. • The J-L283 (xZ627) sample is on the "Avar_cline"...

Worthless arguing with someone who bases his "theories" on modern distribution and repeatedly confuses TMRCA estimates with actual migrations, while also ignoring ancient DNA. He does the same thing with his J2b-L283 "theories" and long walls.

These Z638 samples are too young relative to the age of Z638>Z1297, so they tell us practically nothing about the origins of these branches (mos e nejs ket francuzin me pallavrat kelte/hallstatt/unrfield :lol2:). For all we know, these guys could've migrated up there as late as the the Roman...

Certainly! That's one of the possibilities (besides Arbëreshë). The TMRCA fits there pretty nicely.

Of course. There is many Tosks under J-PH1751. There is even Arbëreshë (who were largely of Tosk origin), the two samples under J-Y190804 are from Apulia, then there is the Palermo sample under J-Y47962. There is also some Tosks under J-Y82533 as well, btw. Furthermore, your answer can be...

Yes, that would be correct, the likely origin and expansion of haplogroup J2b-M12 (~15,800 ybp). With regards to the L283 branch, considering it split off 9700 ybp and the rumored J2b from Eneolithic Moldova, it's quite possible it was in Europe or nearby ~7000 ybp, although I don't think we can...

I guess you mean J2b-M12 mutation, an "ancestor" of L283, ~16000 years ago arose in that region, but we actually don't have any evidence the J2b-L283 branch itself was there 7000 years ago (it split 9700 ybp from the ME/South Asian J-Z2432 branch). Also, the two J2b samples from Neolithic Hajji...