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I think earlier J-L283 clades were probably somewhere in between of East Alps - North Balkans (take for example J-YP91). We also have that J-Z615* in EBA Maros Culture (Mokrin). For the downstream J-Z597 branch (which is the most prolific J-L283 branch), current aDNA samples and modern...

By "jumping into conclusions" I meant when he claimed Z638 lineages couldn't have been in Albania before 1200 BCE. He also suggested Z638 had its starting point in Slovenia/North Italy which there is no evidence of. I'm not saying it was from Albania either, but likely somewhere between these...

Yeah, Riverman is definitely not bad and is someone who I feel I can have an honest debate. He contributes a lot in these topics, especially for "Balkan" haplogroups like V13. My main criticism for him is that he seems to rely too much on modern distribution. Often times, this has led to the...

Yes, of course, just as people like you claimed in the past J-Z631>Z1043 was clearly spread by the Celts by looking at the YFull tree. Wonder how that's looking after the latest aDNA result from Montenegro, combined with its complete absense in Celtic related regions/cultures. Not saying you're...

It's the usual bizarre claims by user Wanderer. At the time when we had I4331 from MBA Dalmatia as the only J2b-L283 aDNA sample, he even suggested he was a kidnapped kid from Georgia/Kura-Araxes culture, or something along those lines :lol2: (can't seem to find the post). If you have some time...

There is only one late antiquity sample from Montenegro: R3481, (~260 CE) Doclea, Montenegro which belongs to J2b-L283>>Z638>>Z631>Z1043. In the Balkans, this subclade is mostly found among Albanians, so I'm not sure what you're suggesting... (The other sample from Montenegro, J-CTS6190, is...

In the post you quoted, I simply refered to him as an early Messapian, as in early Iapygian, without specifying a tribal region. See: "Some ancient sources treat Iapygians and Messapians as synonymous, and several writers of the Roman period referred to them as Apuli in the north, Poediculi in...

The paper states this is a new sample from Kotias Klde that's J2b. At this point, it's only a suspicion that he may be J2a, as the dating, site, mtDNA, is exactly the same as previously published KK1 which is J2a-Y12379. So it's possible he is some paternal relative of the J2a sample and the...

It was already explained to you here in two different posts. Simply, their Y phylogeny (as well as autosomal clustering) strongly suggests they are not native to the Tunisian coast, and their more distant origins likely lie in the (eastern) Adriatic, before any recorded Phoenician or Greek...

Yeah, it's pretty much shaping like J2b-L283 subclades played an important role in the ethnogenesis of the Illyrians, just like some of us predicted some time ago and before we had all these aDNA samples. Actually, since this Iapygian/Messapian sample (NEO806) is Y21878+ he is closer to the...

Yes, you know very well. This:

For now all we have about the sample is: NEO281, Kotias Klde, Georgia, 7773 BC: J2b As we know, there is already a Mesolithic sample from this exact cave that was J2a-Y12379 and apparently carried the same mtDNA clade. So, either there is some mix up with the existing J2a sample or this is...

An important aDNA sample with regards to the thread. From the new paper (in preprint) Population Genomics of Stone Age Eurasia we have: NEO806, Grotta Delle Mura, Monopoli, Italy_BronzeAge: J2b2a1a1a1a1a1b Which corresponds to: J2b-L283>>Z638>Z1297>Z1295>Y21878 This should be a Iapygian...

:lol2: :lol2:

Sorry, but you're showing us nothing to support your "genetic evidences". All you're doing is recycling your unsubstantiated personal beliefs. I don't have any more time to waste today :)

Care to show us the evidence of a "late" entry then? What the evidence we have shows is that Albanian J2b-L283 subclades, such as J-Y20899 and J-Y82533, have TMRCAs among Albanian samples dating back well into the late antiquity.

I thought we were discussing classical Illyrians of the Balkans, as in mid to late Iron Age. Bronze Age samples you bring up obviously don't fit that category. And I did not claim Illyrians being E-V13 heavy. So don't put words in my mouth please :)

It hasn't shown up yet. But keep in mind that currently all we have is a few IA samples from one region of Northern Croatia which corresponds to Iapydes areas. While E-V13 may not turn out to be a major haplogroup among the classical Illyrians, it's possible that some of the major Albanian...

By "kids" I meant random forum users who don't necessarily have the experience or the qualifications with regards to Albanian Y-DNA research and are jumping to premature conclusions. So I do apologize if that came out the wrong way. Yes, it has been my observation for some years, even before we...

No, there is no such genetic evidence to date. Care to elaborate your "genetic evidence"? Shouldn't expect much since you can't even properly spell E-V13. You obviously are rooting for your own haplo to be the "Proto-Albanian" lineage, just like many kids in these forums (unless you are...