Neolithic Refuge and Continuity in Transylvania

PaleoRevenge said:
This is small potato, the real data is in the relevant regions. But we are getting E-V13 in IA Ukraine, Gothic Ukraine(far east too), IA Switzerland and there is nothing in Albania until 800-900 AD. Some context for the mediocrities of rrenjet.

It's too bad the data is coming out in the smallest bits possible and not all in one shot.
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The funniest thing here is how all these new results are not shared by Rrenjtlet but are also being supressed by their circle of morons such as "Arbanology" who have shared nothing of these new results to his audience (i.e. about the oldest e-v13 sample yet found in Thracian Hallstatt and so on), as well as spreading other lies and running interference.

They lack even the basic foresisght to predict that since E-V13 is the largest single haplo percentage among Albanians, there will eventually come a reckoning where out of pure self-curiosity/interest, E-V13 Albanians will start asking questions, and all their games of deception will come back to haunt them when a critical mass is reached. Even if for now they are getting away with lying to some imbecile morons and minions, they are going to have to deal with a lot of pushback, especially from those faithful true believers in their inner circles that have been duped by bruzmi & co. Who knows what some of those kids mad that they've been lied to might do.
 
Bruzmi stresses the Roman era origin for most of J-L283 out of the Balkans as well. Even though its absolutely clear that some branches were early on adopted by Etruscans and Hallstatt people (I don't say Celts, because not all must have been Celts, even if they were Italo-Celtic/Centum IE people).
For now many Northern Thracian/Dacian branches in particular are better represented by Central European ancient DNA samples than pre-Roman Balkan ones. We always need to remember were it all started, when he refuted to accept that E-V13 was a Thracian haplogroup to begin with, even though we had the knowledge about the post-Psenichevo samples and the many Illyrians with no E-V13. He's always clinging to straws up to the very last moment.
 
Johane Derite said:
The funniest thing here is how all these new results are not shared by Rrenjtlet but are also being supressed by their circle of morons such as "Arbanology" who have shared nothing of these new results to his audience (i.e. about the oldest e-v13 sample yet found in Thracian Hallstatt and so on), as well as spreading other lies and running interference.

They lack even the basic foresisght to predict that since E-V13 is the largest single haplo percentage among Albanians, there will eventually come a reckoning where out of pure self-curiosity/interest, E-V13 Albanians will start asking questions, and all their games of deception will come back to haunt them when a critical mass is reached. Even if for now they are getting away with lying to some imbecile morons and minions, they are going to have to deal with a lot of pushback, especially from those faithful true believers in their inner circles that have been duped by bruzmi & co. Who knows what some of those kids mad that they've been lied to might do.
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Rrenjet posted in facebook about the Ukraine sample. Showed the neolithic graph that is from Trypillian farmers(who are only 75% EEF), E-V13 sample being around 30% Yamanya is not attractive to them. They even claimed the Babadag site is near Bulgaria. :LOL:
Would one claim DNA samples from Ulqin are near Greece? Is that the best way to describe the geographical location?
They admited the samples are related to Thracians, of course they are but they would not say how, they just want to imply a southern origin.

The comment section is even more dimwitted. They are all Sazan Guri in some degree or form. No profesionalism, no maturity, just a bunch of dimwitts, as helpless and comical as the country they built.

I doubt the mass will eventully turn, there is a serious IQ barrier, when confronted the vast majority react as if E-V13 being Daco-Thracian is a vicous conspiracy againt the imageney Illyrian empire and it's glory, an attack against the magical land of Dillaradia.

If someone thinks I being harsh, find me the equivalent of Sazan Guri, Kocaqi and other weekly stars in a Anglo, French or German mainstream TV. That would not fly, it's too stupid and low IQ. In Albania it's intellectual feed.
 
There is another argument for him being authentic, his skull was below beams and elements of the bridge (table S14), just like that of most, but not all the other remains. That makes especially a later timing highly unlikely. The main issue for this sample was definitely the contamination. Also, he can't be much younger than Hallstatt, because his haplogroup fits right into a timing for Hallstatt-Vekerzug, with those two Chuvash from Russia. This means even if he wouldn't have been buried together with the others, he likely was between 500 to 100 BC.
Incidently, this would imply a fairly recent arrival of this E-V13 indivdual, just like expected for many of the related E-S2979 branches in the Alpine-Danubian zone.
The German-French-English vs. Italian-Sardinian vs. Hungarian-Romanian-Slovakian splits suggest so. Its all visible in the modern data already, such patterns don't appear by chance. We deal with a Vekerzug into La Tene era dispersal of E-S2979 into the West.

I don't claim to know the proportion of these earlier branches vs. later resettled Dacians in the Roman era and movements in the migration period, but this Pre-Roman movements are just evident.
 
PaleoRevenge said:
Rrenjet posted in facebook about the Ukraine sample. Showed the neolithic graph that is from Trypillian farmers(who are only 75% EEF), E-V13 sample being around 30% Yamanya is not attractive to them. They even claimed the Babadag site is near Bulgaria. :LOL:
Would one claim DNA samples from Ulqin are near Greece? Is that the best way to describe the geographical location?
They admited the samples are related to Thracians, of course they are but they would not say how, they just want to imply a southern origin.

The comment section is even more dimwitted. They are all Sazan Guri in some degree or form. No profesionalism, no maturity, just a bunch of dimwitts, as helpless and comical as the country they built.

I doubt the mass will eventully turn, there is a serious IQ barrier, when confronted the vast majority react as if E-V13 being Daco-Thracian is a vicous conspiracy againt the imageney Illyrian empire and it's glory, an attack against the magical land of Dillaradia.

If someone thinks I being harsh, find me the equivalent of Sazan Guri, Kocaqi and other weekly stars in a Anglo, French or German mainstream TV. That would not fly, it's too stupid and low IQ. In Albania it's intellectual feed.
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I understand the sentiment, but don't agree ultimately. There are enough diaspora albanians alone that have been educated outside of this context. Likewise the internet itself will do enough, as more and more people test on their own and ask questions. Just like you see some random old american, english, etc man occasionally pop in and start asking questions about e-v13 after discovering that is what they belong to. It is a fundamental curiosity that cannot be stopped. There is a large mass of malleable idiots that are indoctrinated, but ultimately they will lose.

I have to give props to rrenjet for actually posting the thracianhallstatt E-V13, i seem to have missed it. Even though they are trying to spin it, at least they don't outright supress it entirely, on the scale of Arbanology and the others. The funniest thing now is seeing what they are reduced to, now their best hope is in rafc's model of E-V13 being from neolithic thracianised enclave in Bulgaria, which is still equally as non-illyrian in origin for E-V13 as Riverman's model. Their attempts at spinning this are already deep in crisis damage control mode.
 
Johane Derite said:
I understand the sentiment, but don't agree ultimately. There are enough diaspora albanians alone that have been educated outside of this context. Likewise the internet itself will do enough, as more and more people test on their own and ask questions. Just like you see some random old american, english, etc man occasionally pop in and start asking questions about e-v13 after discovering that is what they belong to. It is a fundamental curiosity that cannot be stopped. There is a large mass of malleable idiots that are indoctrinated, but ultimately they will lose.

I have to give props to rrenjet for actually posting the thracianhallstatt E-V13, i seem to have missed it. Even though they are trying to spin it, at least they don't outright supress it entirely, on the scale of Arbanology and the others. The funniest thing now is seeing what they are reduced to, now their best hope is in rafc's model of E-V13 being from neolithic thracianised enclave in Bulgaria, which is still equally as non-illyrian in origin for E-V13 as Riverman's model. Their attempts at spinning this are already deep in crisis damage control mode.
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There is a fundamental lack of understanding on ancient history apparently, like for instance Illyrians are vastly overrated by Albanians. And they absolutely lack any knowledge on Geto-Dacians, Mysians and Thracians. I have seen people started to get more aware of this fact. So, it's going on the right direction.
 
The problem I am seeing is most the commenters in rrenjet do not even understand haplogroups, those that get over the hurdle do not understand branching. And those that finally manage it all go in full denial, rrenjet staff has chosen to go in a mental isolation reminiscent to Albania under Hoxha, on their own free will. There is a fundamental lack of understanding, they mimic western science but only as means to the end. Example Matzinger uses linguistic as a tool to reconstruct the early Albanian, and comes to the conclusion Albanian could not have developed in modern Albania. Rrenjet staff use linguistics as means to justify their fantasies. hhhmm hhaa lesh = lezh, umm brrr Scardus= sharr, just make random sounds until the phonetics match. There is no understanding of the world around them, just mediocre mimicking.
I do believe when massive E-V13s gets eventually published from the core Daco-Thracian regions, they will blame the event on the likes of me and you, instead of acknowledging reality was always so. Future ancient DNA samples are a form meme vodoo to them, conceive, believe, achieve. stfu
 
The new E-V13 sample from IA Switzerland is the most southern shifted of the group. And it does not shift toward south Thracians, but towards Bessarabi and Dacian E-V13s.

q5qw9FX.png



And an IA model:
YmaErEB.png
 
PaleoRevenge said:
The problem I am seeing is most the commenters in rrenjet do not even understand haplogroups, those that get over the hurdle do not understand branching. And those that finally manage it all go in full denial, rrenjet staff has chosen to go in a mental isolation reminiscent to Albania under Hoxha, on their own free will. There is a fundamental lack of understanding, they mimic western science but only as means to the end. Example Matzinger uses linguistic as a tool to reconstruct the early Albanian, and comes to the conclusion Albanian could not have developed in modern Albania. Rrenjet staff use linguistics as means to justify their fantasies. hhhmm hhaa lesh = lezh, umm brrr Scardus= sharr, just make random sounds until the phonetics match. There is no understanding of the world around them, just mediocre mimicking.
I do believe when massive E-V13s gets eventually published from the core Daco-Thracian regions, they will blame the event on the likes of me and you, instead of acknowledging reality was always so. Future ancient DNA samples are a form meme vodoo to them, conceive, believe, achieve. stfu
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Well, there are thankfully non-Albanian E-V13s that serve as checks and balances in this regard. They have skin in the game and are curious about E-V13's origin but have no investment in the Albanian continuity melodrama.

My predictions for the spin and obfuscations they(bruzmi/corrigendum/hasangjekaj) will do if this trend continues are:

1. If we see eventually a pre-roman E-V13 branch from channelled ware incursions into Albania/west balkans, they will use this to obfuscate the core origin, push the one branch here, one branch there nonsense, as they already do with roman moesia samples and such.

2. They will double down on there "Dardano-Pannonian" Illyrians had E-V13 spin, which again suppresses the debate around the core origin of E-V13. They skip the indo-europeanisation of E-V13 and go straight to neolithic. E-V13 had its bronze age expansion as an Indo-european speaking people, so it's inherently contradictory the way they gloss over this core E-V13 group. They avoid the bronze age resurfacing of E-v13 like the plague. They do this because they play the "ev13 is an eef haplogroup" route, claiming multiple indo-europeanisation events into separate peoples, i.e. greeks assimilated one eef branch here, illyrians assimilated an eef branch there, when we know this is highly unlikely given the expansion of E-V13.

3. If it gets to the point where it is so undeniable, they will go the Thraco-Illyrian route, whereby they will claim Thracians as "Illryians of the east balkans" i.e. they were indo-european paleabalkanic brothers, their languages weren't so different after all, etc.
 
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Albania_BA_IA,0.1231566,0.1523294,0.0274544,-0.0156332,0.0270818,-0.0087572,0.000987,-0.0007846,-0.0003274,0.0256952,0.0030206,0.005785,-0.0189098,-0.0070464,-0.0095546,-0.0063644,0.0069624,-0.00038,0.0027652,-0.0069534,-0.009084,0.0029182,-0.002687,0.0059286,-0.0058678
Croatia_EIA,0.1254331,0.1475903,0.0357761,0.0018949,0.0362322,-0.0006322,0.0012063,0.0021077,0.0117941,0.0260355,-0.0020785,0.007653,-0.0141029,-0.0067343,-0.0018819,-0.0012286,0.0018951,0.0038427,0.0054218,-0.0020593,-0.004018,0.0026627,-0.0017172,-0.0010122,-0.0026583
Hungary_LaTene,0.12549,0.1414125,0.038655,0.000646,0.0356218,0.0023008,0.0024088,0.0023655,0.0062892,0.0188615,-0.0020298,0.0048708,-0.013974,-0.0048515,-0.0037322,-0.007624,0.0003262,0.002407,0.0092702,-0.0067532,-0.004523,0.0023805,0.0014483,-0.0021688,-0.0016468
Hungary_EIA,0.1269125,0.1482675,0.039032,-0.0037145,0.043085,-0.0119925,0.0036425,0.0045,0.0193275,0.035718,0.003816,0.0038215,-0.014123,-0.002959,-0.008347,-0.0119995,-0.010887,0.001584,0.0064105,-0.007691,-0.006052,0.0051935,-0.0018485,-0.0088565,-0.003233
Hungary_EIA_Hallstatt,0.135449,0.144205,0.059208,0.020026,0.047701,-0.001673,-0.000235,-0.001615,0.013908,0.021322,-0.000487,0.007643,-0.008176,0.004954,-0.004343,0.005038,0.01004,0.003927,0.009804,-0.001376,-0.009234,0.003339,-0.000616,-0.008435,0.000838
Hungary_EIA_o3,0.127482,0.140143,0.072784,0.063631,0.040007,0.029562,0.00564,0.014999,0.008385,-0.010752,0.003573,-0.006145,0.00892,0.009083,0.003936,0.000663,-0.001565,0.005068,-0.007165,0.004877,0.007736,-0.002226,-0.001972,-0.011206,0.000359
Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat,0.1272922,0.1426818,0.0470145,0.0135122,0.0407768,0.0023707,0.0030552,0.003269,0.012885,0.0150343,0.0015697,0.0048705,-0.0070613,-9.18E-05,-0.0059488,-0.0028285,-0.0009128,0.0020268,0.0036872,-0.0011672,-0.002454,0.0008863,-0.0012733,-0.0083543,-0.0007187
Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat_o1,0.129758,0.139128,0.095412,0.065892,0.073244,0.016733,0.013631,0.011999,0.033133,0.005649,-0.003085,-0.014237,0.021853,0.021882,-0.020901,0.007292,0.011604,-0.004054,0.001131,0.012881,0.012478,0.008161,-0.01442,-0.043862,-0.002515
Bulgaria_EIA,0.1195141,0.1624847,0.009428,-0.0534334,0.031918,-0.023666,3.34E-05,-0.0027031,0.0125341,0.045559,0.005266,0.0081784,-0.0172234,0.0018479,-0.0233631,-0.0139599,0.0072457,0.0036196,0.0086373,-0.0116486,-0.0107846,0.0022433,-0.0008804,0.0002237,-0.005423
Greece_Delphi_IA,0.119514,0.161469,-0.009051,-0.057817,0.02462,-0.031794,-0.009165,-0.010384,0.01493,0.038087,0.000974,0.008542,-0.017839,-0.003853,-0.022258,0.007823,0.023208,0.00114,0.009176,0.00075,-0.02009,0.00643,-0.005176,0.014219,0.002634
Macedonia_IA,0.1258882,0.1525326,0.0215336,-0.0193154,0.0273589,-0.0084503,-0.000282,-0.0012921,0.0032724,0.0315268,0.0030529,0.0074483,-0.0163378,-0.0078031,-0.013382,0.0004374,0.009844,0.0037374,0.0071018,-0.0071659,-0.0103193,0.0055645,-0.0006532,0.0066031,-0.0023591
Slovakia_IA_Vekerzug,0.1271025,0.1437313,0.0466874,0.0169683,0.0378942,0.002008,0.0011907,0.0047228,0.0096535,0.0125865,-0.0006819,0.002148,-0.0056491,0.0035691,-0.0042345,-0.0022009,0.0017386,0.0014696,0.0063937,-0.0008755,-0.002612,0.0016486,0.0017995,-0.0070131,3.19E-05
Click to expand...

build this model:

ia_swiss:3437,0.125205,0.140143,0.047894,0.012597,0.050471,0.001394,-0.00141,0.000231,0.013703,0.021322,-0.005196,0.005545,-0.015461,-0.00523,-0.007057,0.005304,0.005607,0.002407,0.008296,-0.007754,-0.003993,-0.003957,-0.003574,0.001325,0.000838
Click to expand...

Distance to:ia_swiss:3437
0.02493548Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat
0.02769414Hungary_EIA_Hallstatt
0.02773412Croatia_EIA
0.02800534Slovakia_IA_Vekerzug
0.02891825Hungary_LaTene
0.04253926Hungary_EIA
0.05144321Albania_BA_IA
0.05528454Macedonia_IA
0.08584660Hungary_EIA_o3
0.09434590Bulgaria_EIA
0.11013046Greece_Delphi_IA
0.11280238Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat_o1



Target: ia_swiss:3437
Distance: 1.9071% / 0.01907078
43.8Hungary_EIA_Hallstatt
33.8Croatia_EIA
20.4Hungary_LaTene
2.0Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat_o1
Click to expand...
 
Maceodnia IA is not one block, but several ethnicities. That's why I broke it up. Same thing for Hungary LaTene, I reduced it to Celtic profiles.

Code: 
Hungary_IA_LaTene:I18488,0.125205,0.14319,0.046763,0.013566,0.048009,0.00502,-0.00188,-0.005538,0.013703,0.020593,0.003735,0.012139,-0.020069,-0.001239,-0.00095,-0.000928,0.005346,0.000887,0.003897,0.005127,-0.006738,0.001731,-0.000123,0.003374,-0.00455
Hungary_IA_LaTene:I18530,0.124067,0.146236,0.044877,0.013243,0.055703,0.006972,-0.003995,0.005307,0.018816,0.028611,-0.004547,0.004946,-0.016501,-0.010597,0.00095,0.00716,0.00678,0.001774,0.005656,-0.001751,0.01148,0.008285,-0.002218,-0.009519,-0.000958
Hungary_IA_LaTene:I18838,0.120652,0.151314,0.043369,0.015504,0.048932,0.004183,0.002585,0.002538,0.010635,0.019499,0.00065,0.005095,-0.015758,-0.007844,-0.002443,0.012994,0.019036,-0.00152,0.007039,0.001251,-0.000499,-0.00272,-0.009367,-0.01458,-0.002275
Hungary_IA_LaTene:I18840,0.124067,0.138112,0.053551,0.012274,0.052317,0.00251,0.005405,0.002308,0.015953,0.018406,-0.010555,-0.001199,-0.005798,0.002064,-0.000543,-0.001989,0.001695,-0.003421,0.003268,0.004502,0.003119,0.00136,-0.002835,-0.006627,0.000958
Hungary_IA_LaTene:I25516,0.133173,0.146236,0.052043,0.022933,0.047393,0.00753,0,-0.006923,0.009408,0.028064,-0.005196,0.013188,-0.016501,-0.004542,0.000679,-0.009016,0.006389,0.000253,-0.003771,0.002501,0.012104,0.013849,-0.000739,-0.009399,-0.003233
Hungary_IA_LaTene:I25519,0.129758,0.147252,0.043369,0.020995,0.041546,0.008646,0.00517,0.007615,0.010635,0.024055,-0.003897,0.008992,-0.017542,-0.007569,0.006107,-0.013392,-0.009909,0.004434,0.006159,-0.013256,0.000499,0.006306,-0.006409,-0.008194,0.004311
Hungary_IA_LaTene:I18531,0.132035,0.145221,0.051666,0.011305,0.039392,-0.003904,0.000705,-0.000231,0.012885,0.032802,-0.005359,0.005845,-0.024529,-0.015138,0.002307,0.014452,0.021644,0.011529,0.008296,0.003502,-0.003619,-0.000371,0.003451,0.000964,-0.006945
Hungary_IA_LaTene:I25518,0.126344,0.156392,0.061094,0.019057,0.048317,0.011435,0.00235,0.010153,0.019839,0.019135,0.000487,0.003147,-0.019029,-0.002477,0.009908,-0.00411,-0.001825,-0.00228,-0.001006,-0.006003,-0.00287,0.003957,0.00493,-0.004097,-0.012813
Hungary_IA_LaTene:I4996,0.134311,0.145221,0.04714,0.01938,0.044624,0.017291,-0.000705,0.005538,0.018203,0.015672,-0.005521,0.007194,-0.006541,-0.003716,-0.005429,0.009414,0.002738,0.00038,0.00993,-0.002626,0.000125,0.003462,0.009613,0.00494,0.000479
Hungary_IA_LaTene:I18839,0.129758,0.136081,0.041106,0.0323,0.038161,0.008088,0.002585,0.003923,0.013294,0.017312,-0.013803,0.009142,-0.013231,-0.006606,0.0076,0.014187,0.015125,-0.006208,0.004777,-0.001626,-0.006988,-0.001607,-0.001109,-0.009399,-0.007424
Hungary_IA_LaTene:I18181,0.134311,0.138112,0.061094,0.016473,0.053548,0.003347,0.018801,0.020307,0.010431,0.032438,-0.008607,0.005095,-0.006838,0.018166,-0.000543,0.007823,0.004955,-0.004561,-0.004777,0.016258,0.010981,0.00779,-0.010353,-0.00482,-0.006945
Hungary_IA_LaTene_Avg,0.128516454545455,0.144851545454545,0.0496429090909091,0.0179118181818182,0.0470856363636364,0.00646527272727273,0.00282009090909091,0.00409063636363636,0.013982,0.0233260909090909,-0.004783,0.00668945454545455,-0.0147579090909091,-0.00359072727272727,0.00160390909090909,0.00332681818181818,0.00654309090909091,0.000115181818181818,0.003588,0.000716272727272727,0.00159945454545455,0.003822,-0.00137809090909091,-0.00521427272727273,-0.00358136363636364

I don't think my model is a coincidence , that a E-V13 component (West Bassarabi profile) is picked up as 20-25%, and the rest being Celtic. It matches what we know. Bassarabi contacts with eastern Celts.
 
Didn't care too much, just wanted to make a guess based on how his profile acts, and it isn't close at all to IA_Greece and Kapitan_Andreevo samples.
 
Half of the samples from Avar site in Croatia E-V13.

DIMINISHED PREVALENCE OF THE CURRENTLY PREDOMINANT CROATIAN Y HAPLOGROUP IN THE EARLY MIDDLE AGES

Šarac Jelena1, Havaš Auguštin Dubravka1, Zagorc Brina2,3, Novak Mario1,4, Carić Mario1, Novokmet Natalija1, Tresić Pavičić Dinko5, Fernandes Daniel2,3,6, Marjanović Damir1,7, Pinhasi Ron2,3

1Centre for Applied Bioanthropology, Institute for Anthropological Research, Zagreb, Croatia;
2Department of Evolutionary Anthropology, University of Vienna, Vienna, Austria;
3Human Evolution and Archaeological Sciences (HEAS), University of Vienna, Vienna, Austria;
4Department of Archaeology and Heritage, Faculty of Humanities, University of Primorska, Koper, Slovenia;
5Kaducej d.o.o., Split, Croatia;
6Research Centre for Anthropology and Health (CIAS), Department of Life Sciences, University of Coimbra, Coimbra, Croatia;
7International Burch University, Sarajevo, Bosnia and Herzegovina

Y haplogroup I2a2-M423 is a Paleolithic European marker most abundant in modern-day Bosnia and Herzegovina (over 55%), Croatia, and Serbia (around 40%). It was initially suggested that the halogroup survived the last Ice Age in refugial areas in Southeastern Europe and the Balkan Peninsula. However, more recent research introduced the possibility that it might have arrived in this region during later medieval migrations associated with the influx of Slavs and other populations and that it became dominant more recently. The objective of this study was to test if the I2a2 haplogroup is present at the early medieval Jagodnjak site (6-9th century CE), located in present-day Croatia and to compare obtained results with a more extensive, publicly available aDNA database (samples spanning from 1st to 15th century CE). Laboratory work was performed at the Department of Evolutionary Anthropology, University of Vienna. Shotgun sequencing of 9 male individuals was performed on Illumina NextSeq500 platform, and Yleaf program was used to infer Y hgs based on ISOGG nomenclature. Paternal genetic diversity in the sample was high, but the sample lacked I2a2 individuals. Half of males were assigned to the typical, local E1b1 hg and second most prevalent hg was R1a1a (33%), previously associated with Slavic migrations in Southeastern Europe. The more extensive database encompassed only 3.9% I2a2 carriers, from which only one was dated to a period preceding 6th century CE, indicating almost complete absence of I2a2 individuals in older historic periods. This preliminary finding provides an additional overview on the history of the Croatian territory, which should be more comprehensively analyzed by examining additional archaeological skeletal remains (possibly from older historical periods) as imperative to make evidence- based conclusions on the I2a2 origin and diversity in this region.
inantro.hr

1/2024: ANTHROPOLOGICAL GENETICS

ANTHROPOLOGICAL GENETICS ANCIENT DNA Presentation number: AG 01 Abstract number: ABS-49-ISABS-2024 DIMINISHED PREVALENCE OF THE CURRENTLY PREDOMINANT CROATIAN Y HAPLOGROUP IN THE EARLY MIDDLE AGES Šarac Jelena1, Havaš Auguštin Dubravka1, Zagorc Brina2,3, Novak...
inantro.hr inantro.hr

g8Yc1Tj.png
 
Nice find but that paper doesn't mention Avar, it is the second one in batch which talks about the E-V13 father and son and hiving some sort of back disease called butterfly vertebra something, IDK. The paper indicates they were part of horseman burials which is interesting, again horse burials are very typic Thracian burials.

ANCIENT DNA PATERNITY TESTING AND KINSHIP ANALYSIS REVEALED FATHER – SON RELATIONSHIP IN TWO CASES OF CONGENITAL BUTTERFLY VERTEBRAE ANOMALY IN THE LATE AVAR POPULATION

Havaš Auguštin Dubravka1, Zagorc Brina2,3, Šarac Jelena1, Novak Mario1,4, Carić Mario1, Novokmet Natalija1, Rimpf Andrea5, Fernandes Daniel2,3,6, Olalde Iñigo7,8,9, Marjanović Damir1,10, Reich David9,11, Pinhasi Ron2,3

1Centre for Applied Bioanthropology, Institute for Anthropological Research, Zagreb, Croatia; 2Department of Evolutionary Anthropology, University of Vienna, Vienna, Austria; 3Human Evolution and Archaeological Sciences (HEAS), University of Vienna, Vienna, Austria; 4Department of Archaeology and Heritage, Faculty of Humanities, University of Primorska, Koper, Slovenia; 5Ilok Town Museum, Ilok, Croatia; 6Research Centre for Anthropology and Health (CIAS), Department of Life Sciences, University of Coimbra, Coimbra, Portugal; 7Department of Zoology and Animal Cell Biology, University of the Basque Country UPV/EHU, Vitoria-Gasteiz, Spain; 8Ikerbasque—Basque Foundation of Science, Bilbao, Spain; 9Department of Human Evolutionary Biology, Harvard University, Cambridge, MA, United States of America; 10International Burch University, Sarajevo, Bosnia and Herzegovina; 11Department of Genetics, Harvard Medical School, Boston, MA, United States of America

[email protected]

Recent methodological advances in sequencing technologies and ancient DNA extraction protocols from skeletal remains opened a window for direct insight into the past of human populations. Here we present an archeogenetic analysis of 43 individuals from the late Avar population (8th century) in the Šarengrad Klopare site from Eastern Croatia. The aim was to compare bioarcheological analysis of human remains with genetic findings to gain deeper insight into their social organization, health and genetic history. Extraction of aDNA and library preparation were performed in dedicated clean aDNA facilities. Sequencing was performed on Illumina NextSeq500 platform. Haplogrep2 was used to assign mtDNA haplogroups, and Yleaf program to infer Y haplogroups. Kinship analysis up to the 4th degree of ancestry was estimated using the READ and TKGWV2 methods. Bioanthropological examination of this population showed an absence of intentional perimortem injuries. At the same time, kinship analysis revealed the presence of at least four families with up to four degrees of relatedness, both pointing to the continuation of living on this territory for a more extended period. Some burials suggested social stratification, particularly in several traditional horseman graves. One was an adult male (grave 25) with an interesting finding of a congenital anomaly called butterfly vertebra. The same anomaly was found in a young adolescent (grave 21). In both cases, the malformation was located on the 4th lumbar vertebrae. Kinship and Y chromosome analysis confirmed that these two individuals were father and son, belonging to the southern European Y haplogroup E1b1b1a1b1a. Their mitogenome analysis also revealed European haplogroups, T1a and H46, all pointing to mixing with local communities over a longer period. This finding emphasizes the importance of using ancient DNA analysis to shed light on ancient populations’ genetic ancestry and health with little or no written historical record.
 
The time period is Avar, and that part of Croatia was fully under Avar rule. The coexistence of paleo-Balkan with Slavic R1a supports that. Slavs usually expelled or killed locals. location wise, not a place locals are expected to survive the Slavic takeover. They were under Avar supervision.

PS the other paper you cited is from a site right near Jagodnjak, from the same period and they called it Avar. They are both Avar period sites.
 
Especially in the Carpatho-Balkan sphere of the Iron Age and Roman period, the primary group which most consistently used cremation were North Thracians/Dacians. In fact, that's their signature rite. These specific results from Jagodnjak relate to this publication and comment:

The phylogenetics of haplogroup E has been the subject of ongoing investigation by various research groups. Recent studies, however, propose its emergence approximately 60,000 years ago within the African continent [49]. In Europe, it is represented by its sub-branch E-V13, prominently observed in Kosovo (approximately 45%), Albania, Montenegro (around 30%), and Serbia (about 20%) and with lower prevalence in other European regions, including Croatia (approximately 10%) [26,29,38]. Initial studies suggested that the mutation V13 was introduced into the Balkans alongside early farming technologies [27]. However, Battaglia et al. (2009) proposed an earlier arrival of this marker in Europe during the late Mesolithic period, followed by a Neolithic dispersal associated with the spread of farming [33]. Some scholars suggested that E1b-V13 may reflect Greek colonization’s demographic and socio-cultural impact [32]. However, an explanation based on ancient DNA research implies that E-V13 potentially developed in Central or Eastern Europe during the Neolithic period and attained significant prevalence in SEE during the Bronze Age [14,19,50].
Click to expand...

Regarding the E1b haplogroup, our published and unpublished dataset of ancient DNA Croatian samples shows that this haplogroup was present in SEE already in the Neolithic period, although in low frequency. Its presence increased in Antiquity, as well as in the Early Middle Ages. Similar to the R1b clade, its current prevalence of around 10% in the modern Y-chromosome pool in SEE can be explained by the influx of populations from Central Europe that led to its general decline in the region.
Click to expand...

www.mdpi.com

Y Chromosome Story—Ancient Genetic Data as a Supplementary Tool for the Analysis of Modern Croatian Genetic Pool

Due to its turbulent demographic history, marked by extensive settlement and gene flow from diverse regions of Eurasia, Southeastern Europe (SEE) has consistently served as a genetic crossroads between East and West and a junction for the migrations that reshaped Europe’s population. SEE...
www.mdpi.com www.mdpi.com

Now we have a better understanding of where a lot of their E-V13 samples was coming from. Clearly not from the South, but from the regions close to the Danube-Tisza zone.
de.wikipedia.org

Jagodnjak – Wikipedia

de.wikipedia.org de.wikipedia.org
That area was borderline between Celts/Italo-Celtic/related Centum speakers, Illyrians and Dacians/North Thracians for more than 1.000 years, latest since 1.300 BC.
 
Nice catch Riverman, their EMA samples are mostly Avar sites. Not much Roman E-V13 in Dalmatia(sample size 78), despite Roman subsidy. Not great news for Marxists historical fiction. Unlucky.

It does look like their samples from some periods do not even include previous studies at all. The Iron Age samples have to be new and theirs only. I1a in IA Croatia.
genes-15-00748-g004.png
 
Concerning the Slavic invasion and replacement events, I'm pretty sure that we deal with different Slavic tribes, of which some might have mixed more extensively with Central-SEE groups, including those rich in E-V13, wheras others did much less so. Therefore we might deal with Slavic tribes which started with R-Z283, and then a big wave of I2 dominated Slavic clans came in. Either that or or serious sampling bias in all directions.
 
I think those R1a are captive Slavic tribes and different from Serbs and Croats who came in as Byzantine allies to counter the Avars and take up the task of holding the Avars back in exchange for land.
 
Looking at the Bronze Age sample size and ratios, it looks like for all periods they are disregarding previous studies and took their own samples(did not even bother supplementing the previous samples). There is no J2a in any BA samples to date from Croatia but their graph has it. All these samples are likely new. And the pattern has not changed. LOL
 
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