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Kosovo Albanians Haplogroups?

This is from wikipedia:

A study by Peričić et al. in 2005[91] found the following Y-Dna haplogroup frequencies in Albanians from Kosovo with haplogroup E1b1b and its subclades representing 47.4% of the total:

[TABLE="class: wikitable sortable jquery-tablesorter"]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #F0F0F0, align: center"]N[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F0F0F0, align: center"]E-M78*[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F0F0F0, align: center"]E-V13[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F0F0F0, align: center"]E-M81[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F0F0F0, align: center"]E-M123[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F0F0F0, align: center"]J2[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F0F0F0, align: center"]I[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F0F0F0, align: center"]R1b[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F0F0F0, align: center"]R1a[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F0F0F0, align: center"]P[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]114[/TD]
[TD]1.75%[/TD]
[TD]43.85%[/TD]
[TD]0.90%[/TD]
[TD]0.90%[/TD]
[TD]16.70%[/TD]
[TD]7.96%[/TD]
[TD]21.10%[/TD]
[TD]4.42%[/TD]
[TD]1.77%[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
J2 should be represented by J2b2. We did the tests for our family (parents/uncles) and we got the E-V13 & J2b2 Y-DNA according to 23andme. mtDNA is much more diverse (J1c3, H5, H13a1...,I1a1). For at least 500 years (even longer) we have the identity of the northern Albanians/Kosovar and Malcor (highlanders).
 
FBS said:
This is from wikipedia:

A study by Peričić et al. in 2005[91] found the following Y-Dna haplogroup frequencies in Albanians from Kosovo with haplogroup E1b1b and its subclades representing 47.4% of the total:

[TABLE="class: wikitable sortable jquery-tablesorter"]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #F0F0F0, align: center"]N[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F0F0F0, align: center"]E-M78*[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F0F0F0, align: center"]E-V13[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F0F0F0, align: center"]E-M81[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F0F0F0, align: center"]E-M123[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F0F0F0, align: center"]J2[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F0F0F0, align: center"]I[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F0F0F0, align: center"]R1b[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F0F0F0, align: center"]R1a[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F0F0F0, align: center"]P[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]114[/TD]
[TD]1.75%[/TD]
[TD]43.85%[/TD]
[TD]0.90%[/TD]
[TD]0.90%[/TD]
[TD]16.70%[/TD]
[TD]7.96%[/TD]
[TD]21.10%[/TD]
[TD]4.42%[/TD]
[TD]1.77%[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
J2 should be represented by J2b2. We did the tests for our family (parents/uncles) and we got the E-V13 & J2b2 Y-DNA according to 23andme. mtDNA is much more diverse (J1c3, H5, H13a1...,I1a1). For at least 500 years (even longer) we have the identity of the northern Albanians/Kosovar and Malcor (highlanders).
Click to expand...

compare the 2008 article ......2nd chart

http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v17/n6/full/ejhg2008249a.html
 
Seems like Albanians have more E, J2 and R1b than their slavic neighbors. Could it be that R1b comes from Celts?
 
I don't see why Celts could have had so a strong influence on Albanians and Kossovars compared to other balkanic people?
surely these Y-R1b are of old stock (H-35, upstream to Y-R-L51 or L11?) - if I-E (not proved) it could be a leg of Thracians??? (albania language is associated nowaday to dacian-thracian-illyrian satem) - I'm more confident about partial celtic+italic Y-R1b's in Croatia...
 
The region of Dardania was inhabited by Celts, Thracians and Illyrians. there were Celtic tribes that assimilated and were later in time seen as illyrians) by historians.
 
Beast said:
Seems like Albanians have more E, J2 and R1b than their slavic neighbors. Could it be that R1b comes from Celts?
Click to expand...

Nope. It probably comes from IE Illyrians who came from Central Europe anyway. EV13 and J2b2 are the assimilated Paleo-Balkanites.
 
Malsori said:
Nope. It probably comes from IE Illyrians who came from Central Europe anyway. EV13 and J2b2 are the assimilated Paleo-Balkanites.
Click to expand...

It must be said that the J2 in Albanians is rarely found outside them in the Balkans. Most of it it's J2b2.
 
Beast said:
The region of Dardania was inhabited by Celts, Thracians and Illyrians. there were Celtic tribes that assimilated and were later in time seen as illyrians) by historians.
Click to expand...



According Myths and History we have

1) A possible devastasion of Celts Before Hommer at Kadmus times (1500-2000 BC) which create a retaliation movement of Ilyros and its Pelasgians That mix is considered the genesis of Illyrians,
as Son of Illyros is mentioned the Keltos (Celt) so we see a connection with Celts

1b) Bryges (Phrygians) are mentioned by some as celtic Brigandi but in ancient times their taxonomy was as Thracians or para-Thracians


2) Scordisci Serdi Galates (gauls)

In historical times Celts manage to penetrate Illyria even Greece and Delphi,
the term Scordisci is Celtic and means scattered it is probably an esonyme
Scordisci are mentioned to draw back at Nis Serbia parts of Kossovo and then pass Istros (Dunav)
as Scordisci origin are mentioned some Byzantine Emperrors like Ioustinianus
Scordisci are also considered to Build the white city (Belingrand)
we don't have linguistic evidence of Scordisci but we know that had society and inner construction like the La Tene ones

Serdi are mention to settled around Sofia Bulgaria

Galates after the repel of their entrance to Greece are mention to settled in ROmania first, then to Bulgaria in Scanza Mountains (today area of Haskovo till sea) and then moved to minor Asia next Pontic Mountains,
WE know that they Speak a language simmilar to Belgae


so as a conclusion in what ROmans say Illyricum there was Celtic activity,
Greeks mention Half Pannoni Basin as the land of Keltos,
in what we call Illyricum proprie Dicti (Illyria) we don't have historical data about Celtic
but we have myths that mention Celts (early or proto -Celts since we speak about 1500-2000) and Pelasgians are the fathers of Illyrians

The Historical data show a possible settlement of Scordisci to Kossovo areas since their center area was Naissus. as also that scordisci passed North of Dunav and even build the city upon which Belingrad is Built,
Scordisci at 2nd 3rd Century AD are considered to be fully Romanised and mainly serve Roman Legions especially the IV Flavia,

THERE IS POSSIBILITY THAT SOME Latinophones, AROMANI (VLACH) POPULATION IN THE AROUND AREA TO BE FROM SCORDISCI ORIGIN
 
Last edited:
If we compare the data given in Eupedia for Albanians of Albania:

[TABLE="width: 974"]
[TR]
[TD]Albania
[/TD]
[TD]2
[/TD]
[TD]12
[/TD]
[TD]1.5
[/TD]
[TD]9
[/TD]
[TD]16
[/TD]
[TD]1.5
[/TD]
[TD]19.5
[/TD]
[TD]2
[/TD]
[TD]27.5
[/TD]
[TD]1
[/TD]
[TD]0
[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Region/Haplogroup
[/TD]
[TD]I1
[/TD]
[TD]I2* + I2a
[/TD]
[TD]I2b
[/TD]
[TD]R1a
[/TD]
[TD]R1b
[/TD]
[TD]G
[/TD]
[TD]J2
[/TD]
[TD]J* + J1
[/TD]
[TD]E1b1b
[/TD]
[TD]T
[/TD]
[TD]Q
[/TD]
[TD]N[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

We see that Kosovar Albanian have a much higher E-V13 and higher R1b (according to Pericic et al. table on my previous post). I strongly believe that E-V13 is a Dardanian (Dorian) marker and J2 Illyrian (Cadmus, Illyros).
 
FBS said:
If we compare the data given in Eupedia for Albanians of Albania:

[TABLE="width: 974"]
[TR]
[TD]Albania[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]1.5[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]16[/TD]
[TD]1.5[/TD]
[TD]19.5[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]27.5[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Region/Haplogroup[/TD]
[TD]I1[/TD]
[TD]I2* + I2a[/TD]
[TD]I2b[/TD]
[TD]R1a[/TD]
[TD]R1b[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]J2[/TD]
[TD]J* + J1[/TD]
[TD]E1b1b[/TD]
[TD]T[/TD]
[TD]Q[/TD]
[TD]N[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

We see that Kosovar Albanian have a much higher E-V13 and higher R1b (according to Pericic et al. table on my previous post). I strongly believe that E-V13 is a Dardanian (Dorian) marker and J2 Illyrian (Cadmus, Illyros).
Click to expand...

considering History, especially the Illyrian wars with Romans, we know that huge devastation from sea was done to mountain Illyria and Dardania.
It is more possible that the alliance of Greek colonies with Pelasgoid Illyrians against Romans is the 'father' of E HGroup in Dardania, which multiplied and in late byzantine and ottoman era spread around,

the spread of E hg in balkans show that once was near sea, the vital element of Pelasgians, but the expand in Moesia and Mt Pindus might be a later spread when Albanians had some priviledges,

So I beleive that E is more Pelasgian connected Illyrians and Phoenicians and Greek colonists(also share Pelasgian),

Interesting would be the % of R1b among these populations as also its subclades,
the most interesting whould the analogy of minor Asian Hettit M-23 which is considered basical in Mycenean populations (E-V13 + R1b M-23)

The J2b is strange case since exist also in Thessaly Makedonia and parts of Italy in parts of Bulgaria and European Turkey and in parts of Albania as interesting amounts,
 
Last edited:
Combining the DNA, the Bible and Roman and Greek Mythology this is what I have come with so far:
1) That the E
Halopgroup is Hamitic or descendants of Ham (similar to the usage of
Jews for Semites using for it the Biblical Character Shem, or similar to the
Biblical character Japheth which his descendants now are called
Caucasians)
2) I Read a good book called the Faces of the Hamitic People by
Khamit Raamah Kush which I found let some light to my Hamitic roots
3)
Googled I found that the E-V13 gene pool are Original Roman-Trojan genes (Since
Saturn Jupiter and Zeus are associated with Nimrod, a descendant of Cush via
Ham, and histories of Nimrod seeking refuge on the 7 hills of Rome and from that
point on the Original Romans called him Saturn, Originating the Feast of
Saturnilia on December 25)
4) The E-V13 gene root Ancestor was Nimrod the
Powerful Hunter Before the Lord also called as well the Orion, Zeus and
Jupiter and Saturn etc
5) Ham would be the E Halopgroup ==>
Cush (Cronus)= E-M35 ==> Nimrod (Zeus)= E-V13 ==> Dardanus = Dardania
==> Tros = Troy (Trojans)==> Ilus =(Illum) Illyria (Albania)==> Latinus
= Latin (the Roman form of the Greek Lateinos) Lateo "to lie hid" or the hidden
one)==> Romulos = Founder of the Roman Empire ==> Me an E-V13
6) The
Clue for my findings were the Ethiopians and the Yemeni E-M35 as
they fit perfectly the Biblical account of Being the descendants of
Cush
7) Famous Hamitics E-M35 include Albert Einstein, The wright
Brothers, and even Hittler. However looks like throughout history there has been
lots of converts of this Hamitic Branch to Judaism which makes 40% of the Jewish
Population on the Ashkenazi and Sephardi groups
 
FBS said:
I do not see that they had any sample of Kosovo Albanians.
Click to expand...

its the one called FYROM-albanians , because you take areas into consideration. so, these are northern macedonia and southern kosovo. Its because northern kosovo is serbian and if this is taken into account ( which it is not in the chart) then it distorts the data.

you do not base ancient dna based on today's national borders. Correct data would be based on cultural borders
 
Malsori said:
Nope. It probably comes from IE Illyrians who came from Central Europe anyway. EV13 and J2b2 are the assimilated Paleo-Balkanites.
Click to expand...

2007 data on illyrian dna has nothing for kosovo and on albania it gets only 27% ( E3b1-M178 ...renamed now to something else ) and 14.30% ( J2-M172) of illyrian from the Taulantii tribe of illyrians. The kosovo where , if they existed there in the ancient times , the dardanians .

but there is speculation that the Taulanti where Epirotes and not illyrian ...........this is still being discussed
 
zanipolo said:
2007 data on illyrian dna has nothing for kosovo and on albania it gets only 27% ( E3b1-M178 ...renamed now to something else ) and 14.30% ( J2-M172) of illyrian from the Taulantii tribe of illyrians. The kosovo where , if they existed there in the ancient times , the dardanians .

but there is speculation that the Taulanti where Epirotes and not illyrian ...........this is still being discussed
Click to expand...

There is no data on Illyrian DNA. Enlighten me and post that data but before you do that don't link that Croatian pseudo-study pdf crap please.

neonimrod said:
Combining the DNA, the Bible and Roman and Greek Mythology this is what I have come with so far:
1) That the E
Halopgroup is Hamitic or descendants of Ham (similar to the usage of
Jews for Semites using for it the Biblical Character Shem, or similar to the
Biblical character Japheth which his descendants now are called
Caucasians)
2) I Read a good book called the Faces of the Hamitic People by
Khamit Raamah Kush which I found let some light to my Hamitic roots
3)
Googled I found that the E-V13 gene pool are Original Roman-Trojan genes (Since
Saturn Jupiter and Zeus are associated with Nimrod, a descendant of Cush via
Ham, and histories of Nimrod seeking refuge on the 7 hills of Rome and from that
point on the Original Romans called him Saturn, Originating the Feast of
Saturnilia on December 25)
4) The E-V13 gene root Ancestor was Nimrod the
Powerful Hunter Before the Lord also called as well the Orion, Zeus and
Jupiter and Saturn etc
5) Ham would be the E Halopgroup ==>
Cush (Cronus)= E-M35 ==> Nimrod (Zeus)= E-V13 ==> Dardanus = Dardania
==> Tros = Troy (Trojans)==> Ilus =(Illum) Illyria (Albania)==> Latinus
= Latin (the Roman form of the Greek Lateinos) Lateo "to lie hid" or the hidden
one)==> Romulos = Founder of the Roman Empire ==> Me an E-V13
6) The
Clue for my findings were the Ethiopians and the Yemeni E-M35 as
they fit perfectly the Biblical account of Being the descendants of
Cush
7) Famous Hamitics E-M35 include Albert Einstein, The wright
Brothers, and even Hittler. However looks like throughout history there has been
lots of converts of this Hamitic Branch to Judaism which makes 40% of the Jewish
Population on the Ashkenazi and Sephardi groups
Click to expand...

What you have done here with your points taken here is making a fool out of yourself.
 
leaving some stupefying elucubrations on the side, I give here an humble thought of mine: presence at a point of History of some tribe (celtic or else) for some time in a region is not sufficient for heavy demic imput - some mercenaries sets of bigger tribes ran Europe on every direction, settling here and there and getting away after, and even if sometimes they kept some of their proper wives with them, they did not populate whole Europe with their warriors Y-DNA (only leave some genes) - study the subclades for big HG's is still and more necessry -
 
Malsori said:
There is no data on Illyrian DNA. Enlighten me and post that data but before you do that don't link that Croatian pseudo-study pdf crap please.



.
Click to expand...

Link me in which you refer,

Its odd that croatians, bosnians, montenegrians, albanians and serbians all want a piece of the illyrian DNA solely to justify their identity and lay claims to lands . But Illyrians did not see themselves as Illyrians, they all had different DNA, they all had different dynasties, they warred against each other and never aligned with each other in any major degree except Teuta in the south against the Romans and previuosly when 2 tribes united against Macedonia of Philip II and his son Alexander. The illyrians never laid claims beyond the Drin river as south of this was either epirote and later macedonian lands.

The naming of Illyria was firstly a greek name and later used by the Romans to indicate varoius tribes/people who had different cultures and languages in a geographical area named Illyria/Illyricum. Its like the Sarmatians where all different peoples and their huge lands had different races..........another is the Golden Horde and many many more
 
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